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Author
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Topic: Which size headers?
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Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-06-2000 03:42 PM
   
Ok, now if I remember correctly, 1-1/2" cat-forward headers are fine if the car has only been mildly modded. And the 1-5/8" headers are used by those with a large amount of horsepower, or by those with power adders.My question is, what would happen if I put the 1-5/8" tubes on my car? My '90 GT hatchback has a stock engine except for the throttle body and the ram air. The only reason I would want to put on the bigger headers is because eventually, maybe next year, maybe the year after, I want to install a Vortech S trim S/C. Before I do that though, I'd have a new intake, heads, and a cam installed. Would I loose too much backpressure with the 1-5/8? Would my low-end torque be affected radically? Thanks y'all. Stewart PS - Sorry for the "basic" rookie question. I know it can be tiring answering some of these type of questions. ------------------
1990 Platinum GT
- Some mods, but not enough! 1996 Blue Crown Vic
- Suspension and exhaust mods, but nothing available for the engine! Blue Oval Believer, thru and true [This message has been edited by Stewart (edited 08-06-2000).] IP: Logged |
jimb
Esteemed Member Posts: 100
From:s. holland, il usa
Registered: Nov 99
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posted 08-07-2000 02:52 PM
Are you talking shorty headers or long tube. I have equal length shorty 1 5/8 headders on my car and have no complaints. I have done some mods since, such as pulleys, 1.7 Cobra rockers, K & N air filter, and a 73 MM Mass Air meter. Performance is better and fuel milage is slightly better. IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-07-2000 06:57 PM
Sorry about that. Being in California, with our smog laws, I forget that not all of y'all are so strict. I can't put on long tube's and still pass emissions.I'm going to be putting on shorty unequal length. I don't really see a need for equal length, so the added hassles for the installation of equal length are something I want to avoid. Stewart PS - I already have the underdrive pullies. With the ram air installation, the silencer was removed, and a K&N was added. The T/B is 65MM, and of course I have the duel cat-back flowmasters installed. Everything else is suspension related. [This message has been edited by Stewart (edited 08-07-2000).] IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-11-2000 11:15 PM
Does anybody know if this will affect my back pressure or low-end torque too much?Thanks, Stewart IP: Logged |
AdrenalineJunky
New to M&M Posts: 7
From:NH
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-15-2000 10:22 AM
If you have a 5-speed, buy the full length with accompanying H-pipe for real gains. 1 5/8 is the way to go, back pressure can be controlled by muffler choice. I've been trying to find full headers for my AOD but all the company's specify for 5-speed only.
I ordered the BBK equal length shorties which are jet coated, another thing thats worth the money is the high temp coating.IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-15-2000 03:21 PM
Thanks, A.J.Unless there is a company that makes full length with built in cats, I won't be able to use them here in CA! Thanks for the response though! Stewart IP: Logged |
AdrenalineJunky
New to M&M Posts: 7
From:NH
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-18-2000 11:21 AM
BBK has a full length set with accompanying H-pipe that has Cats. Look in the Summit cat under mustang section. IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-21-2000 03:21 AM
Thanks, I had actually already seen those. But I dismissed them because they only have two cats (one on each side) while my GT has four cats.Not sure two would be good enough. Stewart IP: Logged |
wythors
Esteemed Member Posts: 707
From:La Conner WA. Where it rains all winter. Why do I have a convertible again?
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 09-06-2000 08:29 PM
Hey Stewart!I have the FRPP shortie headers on my 93 AOD 'vert. I noticed absolutely no loss of low-end torque. If anything, it's higher. I haven't run an "after" dyno pull to verify but my seat-of-the-pants-ometer tells me that 1 5/8" headers are a good thing. BTW, my car has cold-air induction, Flowmaster cat-back, a 3 core radiator and 180* t-stat. The headers made a noticeable improvement and the FRPP (or FMS if you prefer) headers were a breeze, relatively speaking, to install. I hope this helps! Dave ------------------
1993 5.0 LX 'vert 1994 F150 Lightning http://www.islandclassicmustangclub.com #666 - don't ask IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 09-07-2000 10:32 AM
Dave, thanks for the info! I've just closed a deal with Zonie and purchased the JBA headers he had listed in the classified section of M&M.They are powdercoated, shorty unequal length, 1-5/8" headers. Your 'Vert and my Hatch are similar in mods. I too have the cold air, underbody induction and cat-back Flowmasters. Bit I don't have the rad or t-stat though. I do have a 65MM T/B, rear disk conversion, and one helluva tight, slammed suspension! As soon as I get the 'stang outta the shop, I'm going to have the rear diff rebuilt (it's leaking) and I'm going to have 3.55 gears installed (Sam...ya listening?!?  ) Then I'll probably have my T5 rebuilt. I'm having trouble with my 4th gear...it grinds going in if I don't let the RPM's drop first, before shifting. Then after all that, I'm gonna bolt on matching Edelbrock intake and heads, and an E303 cam. Those engine mods will have to be next year because the money I had saved in the car fund got diverted to upgrading the body instead. That decision was kinda made for me when I got rear-ended about a month ago. Thanks for sharing your "seat-of-pants" opinion of the headers! Stewart ------------------
"If you go fishing, bring a fishnet...you might catch a hummingbird" 1990 Platinum GT (my poor baby's sheet metal has been violated!)
- Some mods, but not enough!
1996 Blue Crown Vic
- Suspension and exhaust mods, but nothing available for the engine! Blue Oval Believer, thru and true. Have rope, will travel! ;) IP: Logged |
ragtopjr
New to M&M Posts: 66
From:Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada.
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 10-07-2000 03:44 PM
Stewart I found a little less bottom end but after 3500 it really felt better and went much higher. I would try and find a set of 3.73 gears they are a really nice street gear it has nice highway manners doesn't hurt fuel economy and you will like them at the track. I just went to the 4.10's from 3.55's on the track I would not get out of third gear,besides no one that I know can get any where near redline in fifth gear with 3.55's legally or otherwise.------------------
1984 5.0L LX Conv 3600 lbs 13.41 at 101.89 SIR
http://mbmustangs.tripod.com/mainpage.htm IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 10-08-2000 12:13 AM
I am considering the 3.73 gear, but only because of something I heard about the E303 and the gearing ratio of the 3.55 not being very complimentary. I'm going to ask Alex about this and see what he says.Does anyone sell a speedometer correcting speedo gear for the 3.73's yet? Stewart ------------------
Got Milk? :-)~~
If you go fishing, bring a fishnet you might catch a hummingbird 1990 Platinum GT (my poor baby's sheet metal has been violated!)
- Some mods, but not enough!
1996 Blue Crown Vic
- Suspension and exhaust mods, but nothing else...YET!
M&M Member #437
Blue Oval Believer, thru and true. [This message has been edited by Stewart (edited 10-08-2000).] IP: Logged |
ragtopjr
New to M&M Posts: 66
From:Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada.
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 10-08-2000 02:15 AM
the 3.73's are a much better choice and alex will be able to tell you which suppliers will sell the proper speedo gear you also have to know which one you have on the tailshaft of the tranny let me know i might be able to help.------------------
1984 5.0L LX Conv 3600 lbs 13.41 at 101.89 SIR
http://mbmustangs.tripod.com/mainpage.htm IP: Logged |
Capri
Forum Kahuna Posts: 815
From:Lyons, ILL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-08-2000 08:46 PM
Hooker Long tube, Super Competition headers clear the AOD no problem. I had them on the CApri, and now the 89 GT Convertible. 1 5/8 tubes When I ran them on the stock Capri when I drove it on the street, Id say they worked rather well. 13.40's stock. On the Speedo gears, get them direct from a ford dealer. They are available through the Motorsport catalog, or over your regular parts counter. Most likely they will need to be ordered. Tony. IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 10-08-2000 09:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Capri:
On the Speedo gears, get them direct from a ford dealer. They are available through the Motorsport catalog, or over your regular parts counter. Most likely they will need to be ordered.Tony.
Even for the 3.73? I thought they only made the correcting speedo gear for up to the 3.55 gear. Do you have a FM catalog, Tony? And if you do, would you mind checking? Thanks, Stewart [This message has been edited by Stewart (edited 10-08-2000).] IP: Logged |
wythors
Esteemed Member Posts: 707
From:La Conner WA. Where it rains all winter. Why do I have a convertible again?
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 10-08-2000 11:53 PM
Stewart,
Near as I can tell (the catalog's a little confusing) you need a 21 tooth gear. They designate it as "red", service part number C4OZ-A. Hope this helps.
Dave------------------
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. 1993 5.0 LX 'vert
1994 F150 Lightning
http://www.islandclassicmustangclub.com
MCA Member #47838
M&M Member #666 - don't ask IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 10-10-2000 02:11 PM
Thanks, Dave. Last time I saw an aftermarket catalog selling the correcting speedo gears, there wasn't one available for the 3.73. The only thing that worries me with the 3.73 is the freeway RPM's. I could live with the 3.55, but I'm not too sure I'd like the 3.73's. I might have to get that 6 speed Tremec sooner than I wanted. Stewart ------------------
Got Milk? :-)~~
If you go fishing, bring a fishnet ;) you might catch a hummingbird 1990 Platinum GT (my poor baby's sheet metal has been violated!)
- Some mods, but not enough!
1996 Blue Crown Vic
- Suspension and exhaust mods, but nothing else...YET!
M&M Member #437
Blue Oval Believer, thru and true. IP: Logged |
Gearhead
Esteemed Member Posts: 429
From:The Rock, Crazy Canuckland
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 10-10-2000 02:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stewart:
The only thing that worries me with the 3.73 is the freeway RPM's. I could live with the 3.55, but I'm not too sure I'd like the 3.73's. I might have to get that 6 speed Tremec sooner than I wanted. Stewart
I wouldn't worry about that if I were you Stewart. I've ridden in/driven lots of 5-speed cars with 3.73 gears, and the RRMs aren't a problem at highway speeds (80 mph+). I found that if anything it made the car much nicer to drive on the highway, as with the 3.73s you don't have to shift to 4th to pass near as often. Much nicer on steep grades too... which is a major factor here in British Columbia. ------------------
Cheers,
Ian
M&M Member #395
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'79 Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car
Ian's Pace Car Page IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 10-10-2000 04:07 PM
Thanks for your opinion, Ian. It makes me feel better about wanting to get the 3.73 instead of the 3.55.I'm still worried a bit about gas mileage though. Gonna have to plan on the 3550 before I do the heads and intake. Stewart IP: Logged |
Gearhead
Esteemed Member Posts: 429
From:The Rock, Crazy Canuckland
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 10-10-2000 04:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stewart:
I'm still worried a bit about gas mileage though. Gonna have to plan on the 3550 before I do the heads and intake.Stewart
Stewart, if you (or any of the rest of us) were really worried about gas mileage you'd be driving a Ford Focus, or Toyota Echo (wow, I hope that they fired whoever designed that car!!). LOL!! It shouldn't make a very drastic change in your actual mileage. Most people report a 1-2 mpg drop, but nothing drastic. Like I said, if gas mileage was a huge issue you wouldn't have bought a high performance V8 car to begin with.  Don't let that scare you off the 3.73s!!! ------------------
Cheers,
Ian
M&M Member #395
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'79 Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car
Ian's Pace Car Page IP: Logged |
ragtopjr
New to M&M Posts: 66
From:Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada.
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 10-10-2000 01:01 PM
Stewart my mileage actually got better when I went to 3.73's the red 21 tooth gear is correct if you have the yellow 7 tooth drive gear in the tranny if you have the light blue 8 tooth drive gear you will need the white 23 tooth check out steeda they sell them and have a chart as well tire size will have an impact.------------------
1984 5.0L LX Conv 3600 lbs 13.41 at 101.89 SIR
http://mbmustangs.tripod.com/index.htm IP: Logged |
cpmaverick
Forum Kahuna Posts: 462
From:Auburn, AL.. If you ever stop by check out my daily driver Maverick
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 10-10-2000 08:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stewart:
I am considering the 3.73 gear, but only because of something I heard about the E303 and the gearing ratio of the 3.55 not being very complimentary.
Stewart.. I know a guy with a Maverick who runs a late model 5.0L (carb'd), E303 cam and 3.55:1 rear gears and his best run a a 12.20 !!!, so I'd say you heard wrong. It doesn't mean that they'd be better than the 3.73:1's but don't be afraid of 'em
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-Charlie Ping
1970 Maverick Grabber
-1987 5.0L B303 roller cam/rockers
-1968 Mustang Toploader
-1977 Lincoln Versailles 9 inch w/discs
-1980 Granada Front Discs
www.MAVERICKGRABBER.com IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 10-10-2000 10:42 PM
Thanks guys!Yeah Ian, your right, I'm not really "worried" about the gas mileage. It's just that when I drive the GT I get some pretty crappy mileage to begin with. I just didn't want to see it affected drastically. Stewart IP: Logged |
Gearhead
Esteemed Member Posts: 429
From:The Rock, Crazy Canuckland
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 10-10-2000 11:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stewart:
Thanks guys!It's just that when I drive the GT I get some pretty crappy mileage to begin with. Stewart
Well, it might help if you lifted your right foot off the floor once in a while and let the tire smoke disperse. LOL!! I have a tendancy to get crappy mileage out of my Mustangs too. Funny, Lisa always got way better mileage out of them than me though.   Same car, different driver. ------------------
Cheers,
Ian
M&M Member #395
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'79 Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car
Ian's Pace Car Page [This message has been edited by Gearhead (edited 10-11-2000).] IP: Logged |
Stewart
Forum Kahuna Posts: 2840
From:Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 10-11-2000 02:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gearhead:
Well, it might help if you lifted your right foot off the floor once in a while......Funny, Lisa always got way better mileage out of them than me
That's exactly what I meant! I just forgot to post the last part, being that Renee gets better mileage than me!! That's why I put, "when I drive the GT", instead of "the GT gets crappy mileage". LOL...good of you to pick up on my omission! Stewart
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