JOHN

SCOOP

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65 coupe,351w,RPM intake,Carter625,shorty headers,2.5 exhaust, Flowmasters,C4,open 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede.
MEM#1240

Dave & Terri

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 80 hybrid:
If I had your car that punk would be sucking on the end of my shotgun. Now that's excessive force.

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Originally posted by V8 Thumper:
[QUOTE]
I am truly sorry it happened at all, and hope the damage to your ride (and your pride) is minor. Keep the faith

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No major damage to the car , looking back I am glad no damage, or else, I would probably be in jail right now. I guess my pride was probably hurt somewhat , But , to be honest, I just can not stand these kind of puke-punks , I really had to restrain myself from doing some major damage to them. These type of people have no regard for anybody but themselves , but , every now and then , they will run into somebody that won,t back down. I truly hope that the next time it happens to them , the person they do it to has no restraint at all I feel a bit better now , guess I just needed to vent a little.

JOHN

I've had a few similar situations that Pissed me off beyond belief , they were mainly "road-rage" cases, that i was the main target in. But I'm a pretty passive person and don't lose control too often.

With that said, judging by your description of what happened, it seems doubtful any kind of excessive force issues would arise. You would?ve had to hurt one of them seriously in order for that to fly. I'm surprised the cops even brought that up. But then again, like I said, I don't have all the facts to offer a well-informed opinion.

Just remember: You were only defending yourself, you used as much force as necessary to stop them from attacking you, you feared for your safety (e.g. it was two against one, you have a previous knee injury, etc.), you didn't provoke them (e.g. you originally drove away from them), they trapped you with their car and that behavior, that aggressiveness with their car, lead you to believe that even if you stayed in your car, they would do something stupid like try to break the window to get at you.

And if charges are brought, make sure you press charges against them!

Stewart

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Originally posted by Stewart:
There are so many unknown facts and elements to this incident that for me, it's difficult to render a fully informed opinion.

[This message has been edited by Stewart (edited 12-31-2001).]

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STEWART ,

There really is nothing more to what happened , other than the punk that took a swing at me did so only once, I hit him with an open palm strike on the nose , and , he got pretty bloody (broken ?). He was looked at by the officer , refused a peramedic , and was told to go to the hospital on his own if he wanted to. The guy I put into an arm lock , did not recieve any damage at all , probably just a sore shoulder and elbow. I held him in the lock until the police arrived. These punks were probably anywhere from 18 to 22 years of age , not as big as me but pretty close. Our laws here in British Columbia favor the bad guys 1000 to 1. Our province is full of tree hugging , bleeding hearts. I am sure you ran into the same problem during your tenure in law enforcement. They are allowed to get away with what they did to me and my car , because I smacked one and arm locked the other. Where is the F#%&*^G justice in that. I,ll stop here because I am getting very pissed off again. All I can say is, in time they WILL run into somebody that does not have the self restraint that I have , and , I hope I am there to witness it

JOHN

How were you to know at that time wether or not someone was calling on the cell phone...

They're lucky you didn't kick their *** in the parking lot...

The cop was wrong to even suggest that you could have done things differently.

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Cheers,
Ian
M&M Member #395
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'79 Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car
Ian's Pace Car Website
Vancouver Island Mustang Association Website
Indy Pace Car Registry of Mustangs Official Website

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Originally posted by Big D:
I am with Stewart on this issue... I cannot believe the police took the side of the punks after they pursued you and blocked your car...

How were you to know at that time wether or not someone was calling on the cell phone...

They're lucky you didn't kick their *** in the parking lot...

Don

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I guess they didn,t want to do the paper work for such a minor problem ( in their eye`s ), I don,t know. I,m glad the lady behind me got on her phone, or who knows where this would have gone. I guess what really burns me is the fact that 5 witnesses verified what happened at the light. There truly is nothing more to what happened, even the puke-punks told the cop the same thing I told them about what happened in the parking lot at the video store. You wonder why people get so mad at our justice system or should I say lack of . I guess next time if it ever happens again, I should tuck my tail between my legs and just drive away , and , let the puke-punks get away with what ever they want yet again. I am so F#*%#*G MAD

JOHN

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65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member: Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage

The situation would have to present itself to me to make a call. I would've done probably the same thing. They went in with malicious intent. Eye for an eye.

Stewart remember when you were rear ended? you punched the door or was it the fender? That I would do also. Sure it's more damage than a door ding. but damage to a Stang is damage either way.

A few years ago, at a car show a guy had a freshly painted 38 ford, you know the cars with the big swoopy fenders? A guy held his little kids hand as he used the fenders as a slide! The kids pants had rivits on the rear pockets that scratched the paint off like a key. The owner lucky seen this and chased the guy down. They had a fight. The owner was having a hard time explaining to this dum a** what work and money was all involved in painting this car. The guy said "it's just an old car". Can you belive that crap? I do belive in the end the guy did end up buying a new paint job. But sheesh people where is your respect?

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69 Mustang Sports roof 351W
89 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0
99 Mustang GT Coupe 4.6

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Originally posted by MLariviere:
Let's place them in the military! My opinion.

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Mike,
What do you think we are dealing with in the military now. We have to walk a real fine line and we can't touch the little darlings. It's a tough job. You have to play dad, mom, physcologist, counselor, etc................. When I joined the Navy, you looked at someone wrong and you got bounced off a wall. Needless to say, I learned real quick to keep my eyes and ears open and my mouth shut.

Dave & Terri

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Originally posted by MLariviere:
This all links in to the purple hair and eyelid piercings. If they can mutilate their own bodies,do you really expect them to respect other people's rights and properties? These people obviously didn't learn respect from their parents. Let's place them in the military! My opinion.

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Originally posted by johnmustang:
There really is nothing more to what happened

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I didn't mean to imply you left anything out. Maybe I should have qualified my statement.

The unknown facts and elements I was referring to were witness statements (what exactly did they say), how are the laws written in the jurisdiction for which this occurred, a detailed timeline of the incident from the very beginning (from each involved persons standpoint), what specific physical contact happened between you and the other two guys (e.g. you hitting him with an open hand) and the result of any and all contact. Things like, how did the first guy call you out? What specific words were used, etc. Was your arm lock on the second guy accomplished because you chased him, or was it in reaction to him attacking you? And if he also attacked you, how did he attack you?

Please understand, since I wasn't there, I don't have all the info. I'm not asking you to supply that here, just trying to explain what I meant by "unknown facts and elements."

Don't get me wrong John. I think you did a helluva job to show as much restraint as you did. Both guys are very lucky you didn't clean their clocks and in my opinion, they "got off light." It seems to me you conducted yourself very well.

Again, not being there firsthand to review all possible info, I can only give a limited opinion of the event as a whole. But even then, I can tell you with no uncertainty, and based strictly on the info given here, that if it had been me that responded and the incident occurred here, I'd be askin YOU if YOU wanted to press charges.

Stewart

Nobody messes with our M&M buddies when the grrls are around!!

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Originally posted by Stewart:
I didn't mean to imply you left anything out. Maybe I should have qualified my statement.

The unknown facts and elements I was referring to were witness statements (what exactly did they say), how are the laws written in the jurisdiction for which this occurred, a detailed timeline of the incident from the very beginning (from each involved persons standpoint), what specific physical contact happened between you and the other two guys (e.g. you hitting him with an open hand) and the result of any and all contact. Things like, how did the first guy call you out? What specific words were used, etc. Was your arm lock on the second guy accomplished because you chased him, or was it in reaction to him attacking you? And if he also attacked you, how did he attack you?

Please understand, since I wasn't there, I don't have all the info. I'm not asking you to supply that here, just trying to explain what I meant by "unknown facts and elements."

Don't get me wrong John. I think you did a helluva job to show as much restraint as you did. Both guys are very lucky you didn't clean their clocks and in my opinion, they "got off light." It seems to me you conducted yourself very well.

Again, not being there firsthand to review all possible info, I can only give a limited opinion of the event as a whole. But even then, I can tell you with no uncertainty, and based strictly on the info given here, that if it had been me that responded and the incident occurred here, I'd be askin YOU if YOU wanted to press charges.

Stewart

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STEWART ,
I am going to answer your questions here , not because , I thought that you thought I left something out , but , because I think our justice system sucks, the police have their hands tied by the whinning , tree hugging , bleeding hearts that pollute this world only slightly less than those puke-punks that need a severe SH#T KICKIN
As far as physical contact, the guy that got out of the passenger side of the 510, came to my car smacked it with his hand , and , yelled at me to get out or he would sh#t kick the car. I got out as per his request, he swung at me with his right hand, I blocked it with my left arm, gave him an open palm front strike using the heel of my hand , striking him on his nose, it went splatt he went down. The driver of the 510 got out and came at me with a very angry look on his face, it was all red and tense, his arms were at his side and his hands were opening and closing. When he got to me I did not give him a chance to swing ( it really did not look like he was going to , but, after what happened I was not taking any chances )I grabbed his left arm put him in a back wrist lock , straightened out his arm, posted his elbow and shoulder and took him down. when he hit the ground I put my right knee on his neck and held him there and told him to calm down or I would break his arm , he struggled a bit ,. I twisted a bit harder he stopped , and , the police showed up a couple of minutes later.They chased after me when I left the video store parking lot, when I left I thought it was over and done with. I truly believe they were looking for trouble. I spoke with the constable today, who took our statemets. The two puke -punks were 19 and 21 years old. The 21 year old ended up with a broken nose, and , the 19 year old ended up with a partial elbow dislocation. I should also mention that both of these guys were about my size , around the same height 6`3 - 6`4 , but not quite as heavy as me . I,m about 240 - 245 , they were about 210 - 215. Still big enough to do some damage. They came to the station today to press charges, the on duty staff seargant apparently told them that it was not a good idea to do that , because , they could also get into trouble ( NO SH#T ), at this point it seems to be a wash. As far as the witness statements , all I was told was that they pretty much matched what I had told them what happened at the lights, and , the puke-punks pretty much told the same story to the cops as to what happened in the video store parking lot, even going as far as to say they did open their car door into mine. I still feel I am 100% in the right, maybe I won,t hit as hard if it ever happens again, but , at least I didn,t go postal on them.

JOHN

SCOOP

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65 coupe,351w,RPM intake,Carter625,shorty headers,2.5 exhaust, Flowmasters,C4,open 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede.
MEM#1240

Have a good new year and forget about the punks...

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Steve - M&M Member #690

'90 Limited Edition Mustang LX 5.0 Convertible
'67 Mustang Coupe

Dave & Terri

An open palmed strike is always looked at as a more "defensive response" (read: less aggresive) as opposed to a fist.

(shaking head) I'm at a loss, John. I'm sorry you received this response. It should have been a helluva lot different.

I think you did one helluva job just using the force needed to keep yourself from injury, The fact that these cops just let these clowns walk away is ludicrous, what they did was called Road Rage, and then escalated to Assault
Why is it that they were not charged?
Answer=They picked on the wrong guy, they picked on someone that could defend himself, had it been someone like me the cops would have had to charge them, due to the fact that I would have gotten out to defend myself, (but to be honest I cant fight my way out of a wet paper bag) and they would have been calling an ambulance to take me to the hospital.
The law should not change just because the aggressor ended up in worse shape then the defender, the defender did not go out looking for someone to fight but he found someone anyway, wrong place , wrong time.

Why should he be held responsible for their poor lack of judgment in picking a victim ( you were the victim ) they bit off more then they could chew, and for that they get off with nothing

They deserved much more then you gave them, you showed a lot more restraint then most people would have in the same situation!

You did good Jon

That having been said, I also think that the cop knew that you were in the right, and that they were lucky to get off as light as they did. My guess is that the cop applauded you silently, but obviously couldn't do that publicly.

Possible?

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Originally posted by GTRocks:
I have a slightly different slant on this story that I think is worth considering. I'm thinking that the cop told you that you could be in trouble in a effort to prevent you from hitting someone in the future. I'm thinking he probably told them that they could be in trouble for what they did too. My guess is that the cop was just trying to difuse both sides and get them to realize that there were non-violent solutions that should be considered in the future should an event like this ever happen again.

That having been said, I also think that the cop knew that you were in the right, and that they were lucky to get off as light as they did. My guess is that the cop applauded you silently, but obviously couldn't do that publicly.

Possible?

For the record, I think you did everything perfectly!

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I never looked at it like that , but , you could be right. At this point it is over and done with I guess. I,m still pretty pissed off about the whole thing , but , nothing I can do about it. I am sure that they will get what is coming to them eventualy. There luck will run out , and , when it does , as , I said before , I hope I am there to watch

JOHN

The Tao says evil is necessary, in order for you to know the good.

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Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
John, try to let it go. If you let these punks bother you, they won. The sooner you get away from them in mind, the better you'll be.

The Tao says evil is necessary, in order for you to know the good.

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Consider it gone, I will not allow those puke-punks to ruin another day for me

JOHN

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Originally posted by pthornton:
We shoot them here in Texas. You just need a concealed hand gun license.

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