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Author
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Topic: Camshaft
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-30-2001 11:00 PM
   
I need some help guys. I need to get a camshaft for my block(1990 302), but don't quite understand all the technicalities of it. I want it to work well with the other components.This is not a HP engine but rather one for torque (towing). Any advise? Help? edit - Does anyone know the specs of the stock camshaft? [This message has been edited by 67stang (edited 08-30-2001).]
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68F100
Gearhead Posts: 1070
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-31-2001 01:28 AM
I don't know much about cams, but those who do will probably want to know what tranny,gears,tire size, etc.
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-01-2001 12:08 AM
Tranny - Ford AOD
Gears - 3.55 (possible change to 4.10's)
Tires - 31x10.50R15hehe You are right, they probably want that info
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MLariviere
Moderator Posts: 1918
From: Biddeford,Me.USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-01-2001 08:43 PM
Sorry,Kieth,I'm not much in the know. I let Steve do the thinking for me!  I think you'll want an RV cam, possibly with alot of overlap and a moderate duration. I can't reccommend one,but I know Steve will!
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 16287
From: Saco, Maine MCA # 47773
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-01-2001 09:10 PM
Keith, check out the Comp Cam 268H.
http://www.compcams.com/base/processes/camdetails.asp?Known=31-218-2Alex can get it for you at jobber cost, too. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Keep your driveway ALL Ford!!!
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 16287
From: Saco, Maine MCA # 47773
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-01-2001 09:12 PM
You'll be using about a 600 cfm Holley vacuum secondary and a free flowing exhaust, right?------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Keep your driveway ALL Ford!!!
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-01-2001 11:10 PM
Free flowing exhasut, yes
Carbed? No. FI, yes.If it was going to be carbed, then yes, a 600cfm (probably Holley) would be used
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-01-2001 11:16 PM
From reading the camshaft post in the archives, I got the impression that you didn't want the duration to be the same for intake and exhaust. Something about a "split pattern?"
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 16287
From: Saco, Maine MCA # 47773
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-02-2001 07:17 PM
That helps alot at high rpms, due to the restrictive exhaust ports Fords have, but for a torque motor it doesn't come into play as much. I really liked the 268H when I used it in a 351C, it really made decent mid-range power. I bet it would be great in a 302. The 268H uses assymetrical lobes for fast opening and soft closing, which is easier on valve seats. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Keep your driveway ALL Ford!!!
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-02-2001 11:47 PM
As long as we are talking engines, when I take my crankshaft in what exactly are they going to do to check the journals? Just measure them with a micrometer? Can't I just measure them at home, or is there more to it?For the life of me, I can't remember what they did when I did the Mustangs motor.
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macx
Journeyman Posts: 14
From: Hermiston, OR, US
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 09-03-2001 04:57 PM
First, I'd go to the various cam mfg's and ask their opinions, and look at their websites where most of them list cam characteristics incl power/rpm ranges and recommended use. www.cranecams.com www.holley.com (for Lunati) www.compcams.com www.iskycams.com www.crowercams.com
In general, I think you'd want one with around 200 to 210 max intake duration at .050" lift. If you're efi, you're probably hydr roller cam & computer controlled? Then you're not going to find anything except dual pattern with 112 and 114 degree lobe centers (have to have relatively wide lobe centers to work with computer to eliminate much of normal overlap which the computer can't deal with) Within that duration envelope, you want relatively high lift, like .440 to .460" lift, maybe even use 1.7 rockers for a little more lift. I think some of them make torque cams for trucks. Be sure to ask about piston to valve interference w/stock pistons. As your heads and intake and exhaust are big bottlenecks for power increases in much over 3500 or 4000 rpm on this engine, you've got to stay fairly mild on the cam so everything matches. A good quality lockup converter(like Art Carr, Level Ten, or Precision (www.converter.com) - the quality ones keep good torque transfer)with about a 2000 to 2200 rpm stall versus the stock stall of not much over 1200 or so will also really help get that heavy rig moving without sacrificing pulling power or mileage.
You DEFINITELY need a good plate type extra trans cooler, and to use a synthetic fluid. Also a trans temp gauge to make sure your fluid temps don't go over 170 if at all possible - heat really destroys AOD's! You also want to upgrade the 2-3 shift accumulator (stockers leak which can quickly ruin the intermediate 2nd gear clutch pack) and a good shift kit like www.baumannengineering.com. Those things are easy to put in and will make that AOD live lots longer.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 16287
From: Saco, Maine MCA # 47773
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-03-2001 09:19 PM
macx is right, you need to take the fuel injection in account. I had assumed carbed and never thought to change it for fi.A machinist will mike your crank and look at the bearing surface to check for taper and surface texture. He will also put it on V blocks and check it for run-out to determine straightness. After he checks it for cracks with magnaflux, of course. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Keep your driveway ALL Ford!!!
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-04-2001 02:28 PM
My crank is toast. Even getting it turned won't help it. Waaaahhhhhhhhh!!Now, on a more serious side. Where can I get a crank? Gerri's will sell me a complete drop in 302 with 88,000 miles for $750. Or jegs has a crank for $350 or so. Anyplace else? btw How often does a crank really go bad? They can't make a guarentee that the crank inside the motor is any good.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 16287
From: Saco, Maine MCA # 47773
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-04-2001 08:40 PM
Naw! Get a crank kit at an auto parts store for $150 or so. It will even come with the bearings.------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Keep your driveway ALL Ford!!!
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macx
Journeyman Posts: 14
From: Hermiston, OR, US
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 09-04-2001 11:48 PM
One more "torque" option - if your crank is "toast", and your bankroll can handle it, look for a used 351 efi motor out of a light truck. Add an aftermarket timing chain kit (some of the stockers have an off-center marking scheme that really hurts performance) and maybe add a mild cam. You'll probably gain around 50 to maybe nearly 100 lb-ft of torque, and if you shop around, you might not spend much more.
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-05-2001 12:06 PM
But will it bolt right in? If I could squeeze the amount for the 351 and rebuild (parts and machining only) I know I couldn't afford a tranny to bolt to it.It has got to bolt right up to the tranny and preferably right up to the engine mounts.
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-05-2001 10:54 PM
Did some research today, and no they will not bolt together. So I would need a E4OD. I can get a 351/E4OD and all the wiring and the computer for a little under $3000 ready to drop right in. I'll see what I can do for my 302, thanks.
Its mainly going to tow my boat(s) and a two horse trailer, maybe a single car trailer, and I think the 302 can handle that.
If I thik the load is too heavy for my truck, I'll just have to break down and ask to borrow my father in laws Rum, er, I mean ram.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 16287
From: Saco, Maine MCA # 47773
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-06-2001 08:31 PM
It will bolt in, but your front exhaust and front engine accessories brackets will need to change to 351W.The trans and engine mounts are the same. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Keep your driveway ALL Ford!!! [This message has been edited by SteveLaRiviere (edited 09-06-2001).]
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-06-2001 09:36 PM
Exhaust didn't bother me, front bracketry didn't bother me. I don't want to have to go throught the process of changing the tranny too. Like I said, I'll stick to the 302. It'll work for the trailers I have now, and anything more, I have the keys to another truck that don't break a sweat towing heavy duty.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 16287
From: Saco, Maine MCA # 47773
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-07-2001 09:05 PM
I agree with you, plus you already have it, too.------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Keep your driveway ALL Ford!!!
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-07-2001 10:57 PM
So it still all boils down to the camshaft....
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 16287
From: Saco, Maine MCA # 47773
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-09-2001 06:09 PM
Fire off an email to this guy at Comp Cams, and see what he suggests:Eric Thompson [email protected] ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Keep your driveway ALL Ford!!!
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67stang
Gearhead Posts: 827
From:
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-10-2001 11:30 PM
Shot him an e-mail. I told him I was refered to him by Mustangs And More
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 16287
From: Saco, Maine MCA # 47773
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-11-2001 07:34 PM
 ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Keep your driveway ALL Ford!!!
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