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Author
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Topic: 302 Identified (I Think)
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roger
Journeyman Posts: 38
From: ontario, canada
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 11-02-2000 12:58 PM
   
With all you guys helping out looks like we've narrowed this mystery 302 down to a 1984 mill, the cast iron ex. manifolds and lack of heat tubes to choke being the deciding factors.
Can't thank you all enough for your input, fun eh!
Here's a question for you. I have this 84 complete motor & a 77 302 complete with 65 heads ported polished, rollers.
which mill is going to be the best starting point for a fairly aggressive small block?
I;m thinking a blower(vortec) or a do have a source for the paxton hat system as used back in the 60's by shelby.
again, thanks to all
roger in Toronto, Canada
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cpmaverick
Pit Boss Posts: 590
From: Auburn, AL.
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 11-02-2000 01:56 PM
The 84 mill has lighter internals and is more efficient, it will make a little more power for the mods and get a lot better fuel mileage... Its durable enough for a fairly agressive setup. The problems appear when you decide what car to stick this in.. The later model engine is balanced differently and does not have a boss for the clutch bushing if you are running a stick. These can be overcome but is something to keep in mind. -CP ------------------
-Charlie Ping
1970 Maverick Grabber
-1987 5.0L B303 roller cam/rockers
-1968 Mustang Toploader
-1977 Lincoln Versailles 9 inch w/discs
-1980 Granada Front Discs
www.MAVERICKGRABBER.com
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Gearhead
Gearhead Posts: 569
From: The Rock, Crazy Canuckland, 1979 Indy Pace Car
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-02-2000 03:02 PM
Hmm, that's a tough one as each engine has its own benefits/weak points. While the 84 does have lighter internals, the block itself is also a lighter casting than the 77 block. Beacuse of that the 77 might be a bit stronger, especailly if you have to bore it out (more on that later). The 84 block does have the one-piece rear main seal, which is less prone to leak than the old 2-piece seal used in pre-82 blocks.If the internals are stock with both engines then neither has forged pistons, which I would say is a necessity if you are going to be putting any significant boost (blower) through the engine, IMHO. If the engine requires an overbore when putting new pistons in the 77 block has more material due to its heavier casting, which gives it a bit of an advantage over the 84 block in that respect. The 84 block would take a maximum over 0.030" over before you take the risk of overheating and weakened cylinder walls. The 77 block should be good for 0.060" over if necessary (my 79 block went 0.040" over with no problems at all). The 65 heads would be much better than the smogger 84 heads (very small ports), especially with the porting and roller rockers. The good thing is that they should just swap between blocks with no problem at all, should you favour the 84 in the end. However, there are no accomodations for the late model emissions systems on the 65 heads, in case that is an issue. The 77 internals use a 28 oz. imbalance, while the 84 uses a 50 oz. imbalance. This will affect the decision as to which damper you can use, as well as the flywheel. There are TONS of parts for the 50 oz. imbalance engines, due to the popularity of the late model 87-95 5.0 HO engine. This translates to it being easier (and possibly cheaper) to find some parts than it would be for the older engine. Whew!! Lots ot consider! Hopefully more people will be able to jump in with more advice to help you make your decision. Good luck! ------------------
Cheers,
Ian
M&M Member #395
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'79 Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car
Ian's Pace Car Page [This message has been edited by Gearhead (edited 11-02-2000).]
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Capri
Pit Boss Posts: 918
From: Lyons, ILL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-03-2000 02:35 PM
GREAT POST IAN!!!!! You are very correct on all counts except 1. Finding parts. Im sure I can find just about anything anyone could want when it comes to building a motor. Thats not including what is in my garage either!!!!!!!Tony.
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Gearhead
Gearhead Posts: 569
From: The Rock, Crazy Canuckland, 1979 Indy Pace Car
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-03-2000 06:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Capri:
GREAT POST IAN!!!!! You are very correct on all counts except 1. Finding parts. Im sure I can find just about anything anyone could want when it comes to building a motor. Thats not including what is in my garage either!!!!!!!Tony.
Well there you go, I stand corrected!!  Thanks Tony! I went back and did a bit of searching, and sure enough you can get flywheels and dampers and even cranks for either engine imbalance with no problem. So that eliminates the cost differential factor from consideration. Ah, the eternal question... what to build??  Ian
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Stewart
Pit Boss Posts: 3620
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 11-04-2000 01:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Capri:
Thats not including what is in my garage either!!!!!!!Tony.
Pre-emptive strike to head off what I was gonna say!! You could build just about a whole engine, I imagine!! Gotta brand new, spare E303 cam laying around?? Stewart
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I65Stang
Pit Boss Posts: 1669
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 11-04-2000 01:36 PM
E303 Stewart? Afraid of the smog nazis I take it?  ------------------
Tim
M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 ci w/ a Holley 2300, Clifford header, and true duals w/ 26" Smithys
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html
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Stewart
Pit Boss Posts: 3620
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 11-04-2000 05:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by I65Stang:
E303 Stewart? Afraid of the smog nazis I take it?
Afraid? Nope...I just don't wanna have to change the cam in and out every two years! I'm already gonna have to do that with my offroad H-Pipe!! Stewart
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I65Stang
Pit Boss Posts: 1669
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 11-04-2000 06:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stewart:
Afraid? Nope...I just don't wanna have to change the cam in and out every two years! I'm already gonna have to do that with my offroad H-Pipe!!
Lol, true, its a whole lot easier to swap out an h-pipe than a cam :>). Tim
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