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Author
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Topic: Pertronix Installation Problems.............
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skips69
Gearhead Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-21-2002 03:48 PM
 
I searched the archives first, couldn't find a similiar problem or enough detail to help. I have a 1969 Mustang equipped with the original single point distributor. The engine is also the original 1969 351W 4V that has a Performer RPM kit installed. The wiring harness is a new reproduction (about 3 years old now), and looked identical to the old one when installed. The car ran great, but I thought I could squeeze some more out it and not have to change points every 6 months, so I opted for the Pertronix (the original, not the II version out now). I have it all ho9oked up, but the car won't start and when I turn the key to the left to take it out, the engine "bumps" over. After 2 times with same results, I have disconnected the battery cables and walked away from it. First of all, how does everyone else hook this unit up? I have removed the points, condenser and negative coil ground. My unit has a pin on the underneath that fits into the points adjustment screw hole, so I did not attempt to set an air gap. It states in the directions that some kits (1281, which is what I have) are stationary and do not require air gapping. So, I have not messed with it, just installed it in place (with the pin in it's proper hole). I have connected the balck wire to the negative side of the coil. I have connected the red wire to the positive side of the coil and also connected the plug from the wiring harness back to the positive side of the coil as it was originally. They refer to a ballast resistor and this may be my problem. I don't know if I have a ballast resistor, but would imagine so. They say in the directions that if you do have one, to connect the red wire to the ignition side of the resistor. I have looked in the wiring diagram section for 1969 Mustangs in my Haynes manual, but cannot find a ballast resitor listed. If this true and I do not have one, then my hooing the red wire to the postive side of the coil should be correct. If I do have one, where is it at approximately so I can splice into the wiring before it? Any thoughts, ideas, hopefully past experience with a similiar experience? Thanks for any assisatnce on this one, thankfully it is raining and I don't have the urge to drive it right now anyway.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-21-2002 03:55 PM
I think that you may have your wires mixe up from the Petronix. Double check the instructions. Also make certain that there is some kind of a gap and the distributor cam is not rubbing directly on the pick up.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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skips69
Gearhead Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-21-2002 04:15 PM
Per the instructions, the black wire is connected to the negative side of the coil. The red wire is connected to the positive side of the coil (which may or may not be right, resistor question still lingering). The distributor cam is at least 3/8" away from the unit. This seems excessive, but it has the pin on the botom of the unit and according to the instructions, this unit for my application should not require to have the air gap set - it is supposed to be stationary. Quite a bit of a gap though isn't it?
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skips69
Gearhead Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-21-2002 04:42 PM
Just to see what would happen, I loosened the ingnitor module and set it .030" from the cam edge just like setting points. Results are the same. Car doesn't start and bumps the engine when turning the key to the off position.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-21-2002 05:10 PM
My brothers car had the same thing,it turned out to be a bad unit.Got a new one and it ran fine.On my 65 with a 69351w motor I just hooked it up.No ballast resistor on my car.And mine is gapped about .030.If it's wired right then they work or not if it's working then I'd say it's the unit.SCOOP ------------------
65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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skips69
Gearhead Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-21-2002 05:21 PM
I also have this question posted on the FOMOCO site and someone just responded that I should not hook the red wire up at all due to the necessary resistance already being in the coil itslef (it is a new flame thrower coil by the way). I have wrote back asking for clarifiaction - do I just not use the wire or do I wire it in somewhere in front of the coil on the inition side? Just curious, what did you have to do with the red wire since you did not have the resistor?
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skips69
Gearhead Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-21-2002 06:22 PM
Well, what I have tried just recently is: set the air gap between the distributor cam and the ignitor module to .030", left the black wire hooked to the negative side of the coil, left the engine feed from the wiring harness hooked to the positive side of the coil, and unhooked the red wire from the ignitor to the positive side of the coil. It was just left off and not hooked to anything. Car still will not start but at least the bumping is now gone when I turn the key off. So much for the 45 minute installation. Stillw aiting to hear from some guys and how they jooked this all up on their cars, particaularly what to do with the red wire coming from the ignitor. It may be a bad module, but I hate to think so. I will hold off on putting the points back on until I hear from some past experiences. I am probably over thinking something.
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PONYMAN
Gearhead Posts: 421
From: Ardmore, Ok. USA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 04-21-2002 06:37 PM
Don't know if I understand or not. Do you have two wires hooked to the positive side of the coil? YOu should have the orginal wiring harness wire, and the red wire from the Pertronix hooked up there. I have had one for years on my 72 351C and not had any trouble with it.
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Fastback
Journeyman Posts: 28
From: Livonia,MI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 04-21-2002 06:41 PM
I had a problem with the Petronix once and maybe this will help. I had a strange misfire after the Petronix installation and it turned out it was the small ground strap inside the distributor that I removed when I took the points out. The ground strap had to remain installed.Fastback
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skips69
Gearhead Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-21-2002 07:13 PM
I did originally have the red wire hooked to the postive side of the coil along with the engine feed that was originally there. The car wouldn't start this way and "bumped" then engine over when turning the key to the of position. Since then I removed the red wire from the coil. The car still doesn't start, but also doesn't bump over when you turn the key off. I have been looking for a resistor wire or ballast resistor since then to hook the red wire into, but I don't see one and I'm all the way back to the engine feed plug now. I removed all the tap back to this plug and still not finding it, so it would appear I don't have this wire and should hook the red wire from the ignitor module to the positive side of the coil which I already tried and didn't work. I did check the distributor ground wire and it is hooked up underneath the ignitor as it should be. I just can't believe it won't work. Maybe I have to open the gaps on the plugs to accomodate this new module? It states you can out to .040", but that it isn't necessary.................
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skips69
Gearhead Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-21-2002 09:13 PM
Just one more update for tonight. Besides moving the module in and out away from the cam and trying to start the car several more times, with no luck, I tried their suggested troubleshooting. They suggest hooking a jumper from the positive battery post directly to the red wire coming from the module. If this starts the car, then you have a resistor wire or ballast resistor in place and should wire this lead from the module into the wiring harness on the ignition side of the resistor. It didn't start the car either, so I guess I don't have one. I will probably put the points back on tomorrow and see what I can find out from the Pertronix folks when I call them later in the day.
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sigtauenus
Gearhead Posts: 3969
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 04-21-2002 09:53 PM
I had this problem with my car after having the Pertronix for about a year or two. Turns out the unit failed. I sent it back to them and they tested it, it was bad, and they sent me a new one for free. Like everybody else, I know installing the Pertronix is really no big deal and it sounds like you are having way too much trouble here. My first idea was the ground wire, but you said that's fine. My guess is you have a bad unit.
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Calcat
Journeyman Posts: 75
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 04-22-2002 02:22 AM
I believe the problem is that you are using the resistor wire to power the Petronix. the Petronix needs a full 12v. Run a wire from the ignition side of your solenoid to the positive side of the coil and attach the red wire from the Petronix to to the positive side of the coil as well, with the black going to the negative side.
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skips69
Gearhead Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-22-2002 08:36 AM
Alright Gents, it pains me to make this post, but I'll be a man about it. I forgot to install the "Magnet Sleeve" all this time. I was going over the directions again and again last night and when I got to the part that states "Install magnet sleeve and make sure it is lined up with the cam and securely seated", I thought "that's probably the plastic thing that I took out of the box when I opened it and tossed it about 3 feet away. I knew I had to be over thinking this whole project. Originally, I took that part out of the box, unconsciously looked at it and thought it was for another application and set it aside. It was out of sight, out of mind all day during this ordeal. Same thing with the directions. I saw it several times, but didn't have any parts left over and could not find in my Haynes, Chiltons or Ford shop manuals anything referred to as a magnet sleeve on the distributor. So, anyway, I am the horses butt. I installed the magnet sleeve this morning, set the ignitor module into it's proper location (pin into the points adjustment hole on the plate it sits on), hooked the red wire to the + side of coil, hooked the black wire to the - side of coil, hooked the ignition lead back up to the + side of the coil, and she started right up and ran good. I checked the timing and it hadn't even moved. It runs smoother now and is very responsive, but then again always was. So, my 25 minute installation turned into I don't know how many hours, but I skipped a step in the directions, so it is my fault. I am just relieved to be past it and hope you all get some enjoyment out of it as we can all relate. It reminds me of the time I switched engines in the wife's 90 Mustang GT. Everything went quicker than expected, turned the key to start it for the first time and nothing. I played with wires, grounds, etc all afternoon and evening with no luck. While sleeping that night, I swear I sat straight up and said out loud "inertion switch". The next morning, I reset this switch in the trunk and the car fired right up. Cars will make you crazy, but that's the fun of it I guess. Thanks for all the help, sorry I was screwed up in a way that no one could imagine (simple step was missed), ha, ha............
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 04-22-2002 10:30 AM
Sometimes that's all you have to do to figure out these things, is to "sleep on it". It usually comes to me sometime in the middle of the night. It's nice when the plan finally comes togethter. I have used pertronix in my old stock Fords for a decade now and have found that they even make the rest of the ignition system last longer. Also I use Platinum tip plugs, premium cap and rotor, and 7mm silicone wires, so the whole ignition system will be virtually maintenace free for at least 36,000 miles! One more thing. The stock coil starts breaking down at around 6200 rpms and the Flamethrower is good for over 7000 rpms, so be careful. You can over rev your motor very easily.  [This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 04-22-2002).]
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69maverick
Moderator Posts: 1539
From: Thomaston,CT.
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 04-22-2002 06:23 PM
I'm not sure about this but I don't think your suppose to us a low resistence coil with these units! It somehow my damage it?
I kinda remember reading this somewhere!!
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PONYMAN
Gearhead Posts: 421
From: Ardmore, Ok. USA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 04-22-2002 10:16 PM
I am glad taht i am not the only one that makes dumb *** mistakes. At least you have the courage to admit it, I usually try to gloss over mine. Oh well, live and learn. Glad you got the car running. I think you will like the Pertronix, my car starts easier, especially when hot, and has been in service for several years with no problems. ------------------
72 Mach 1 351C
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