In this old post you described a 625+ HP 351C motor, do you happen to have the dyno sheet available??

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20010519-1-002967.html

Thanks,

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

I am needing to build my 351C this winter and I am looking to get the most out of my combo. I was very interested to see the power band on that one, the power output was desirable.

I will explain what I have and maybe you can help with a couple of components I will be replacing to get me the most power.

379ci Stoker Crank
6" Long Rods
Closed Chamber heads (exact cc's are unknown right now)
Roller Rockers 1.73
Strip Dominator Intake
950HP Holley Carb
Headers, Dual Exhaust

I will be replacing the Cam setup and Pistons. Leaning toward a Mech Roller Cam. Having trouble deciding on a on a grind.

I will driving this as a Street/Strip car.

Maybe you can help without the actual sheet.

Thanks,

quote:

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Originally posted by orangemach1:
Leaning toward a Mech Roller Cam. ... driving this as a Street/Strip car.

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I'm not Alex, but I'm going to toss my opinion out here anyways; I wouldn't put a solid roller in it. A good soild flat tappet cam will make practically as much power as the roller will, especially in a non race application, and wont break the bank to purchase.

I have saved your reply from before when you recommended a flat tappet to me, toss your opinions in.

I guess I am wondering, What's the limit on a flat tappet?? Specs wise?? If I chose a roller, there is no ceiling to worry about.

Do I have nothing to worry about because I will never get to that limit on a Street/Strip motor??

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Most street/strip cars aren't going to run a ton of lift (that means generally much over .600 lift). Also, I have read about valveguides wearing out on clevelands over time with big lift if they see alot of street miles (I don't know this for sure, it's just what I have read so it may be wrong.) Therefore, a roller cam isn't really warranted. A good solid cam with around 245-255 duration @ .050 on the street would be plenty (maybe a little more depending on your trans and how lumpy can tolerate the idle.) Plus, in my opinion, unless you plan on spinning it over 7500 rpm, a roller cam isn't really going to do you much good. Truth be told, my next race motor is going to have a flat tappet cam in it again. I think I'm thru with roller cams.

But, I don't have any exeperiance with roller cams on the street in a cleveland so, take this for what it's worth.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Your right, I didn't plan on letting it go above 7500 rpm. The cam that was used in the post from Alex has a 648/641 270/276 @.050. The max HP was at 7500RPM, where I want to cut off mine, so the Cam seems like a good fit. Only difference is I want to run a solid, and maybe a Flat Tappet.

With this lift could I not run a Flat or would I have to go with a roller??

Alex,

I guess all I wanted to see with the dyno sheet is the HP/Torque band.

Do you know off hand how much torque it put out and at what RPM?? I know it was a while ago.

This is done to get the maximum AVERAGE power through your rpm range. Shifting earlier drops the rpm too low, and allows the engine to 'fall off the cam' too much.

If you have a self imposed 7500rpm limit, double think those excessively large by huge duration numbers. It will want a compression ratio around 14.5 to 1 or more to make good cylinder pressure, and will want to be spun 8k+ rpm.

Listen to KV, he's got a LOT of experience with racing 351C's. His is also a very lightweight car, so if your car is heavier and will see street duty, an even smaller cam than what KV uses might be in your future.

Be sure to use Hard Blok if major power and rpm are in your 351C future.

Good Luck!

quote:

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Originally posted by orangemach1:
648/641 ...With this lift could I not run a Flat or would I have to go with a roller??

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For a primarily street driven car, I would stay under .620 lift. And yes, they makes flat tappets with that much lift. On the street, and probably even on the track, you wouldn't notice any power difference with a little less lift. I went from .650 lift roller to a .625 lift flat tappet and the car ran exactly the same on the track. Also, since it is a street/strip car, I would shift it around 6800-7200. Much more rpm than that and the cost of parts required to keep it alive goes up.

quote:

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Originally posted by n2oMike:

... an even smaller cam than what KV uses might be in your future.

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The numbers I listed were smaller than what I ran in my racecar. That is about the size I would run in my street car though. Although, I would go a touch smaller because my motors are not strokers. For my street car, I like solids in the 235-245 @ .050 range and I try to keep the rpm below 7000.

quote:

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Originally posted by kid vishus:

The numbers I listed were smaller than what I ran in my racecar. That is about the size I would run in my street car though.

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I was referring to what you use in your race car, which is around 260'ish if memory serves. The exact specs for a cam in Orangemach1's car would depend upon exactly what he wants to do with it... and how loose of a converter and how much gear he is willing to put up with.

Good Luck!

I realize that I can get a flat at that lift (.620). Didn't know where the cutoff is (in regards to lift) when you should bump to a roller cam. It looks like for what I need to be a good fit, I don't have to worry about that. I will take a look at a cam in the .620 lift and 245-255 dur @.050 range.

Is there any concern to stay around a certain lobe centerline?? (I have talked to MrXerox (another "C" guy), and he stays at 110 so he is able to run pump gas. I always ran a mix of race fuel and premium.)

N20,

I have a 4-speed TopLoader and am currently running 3.89 gears, thinking to up it to 4:11 in the near future.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

I understand where your going. If I had my first choice it would be a 393 or 408 stroker. But I am trying to slavage what I can from the short block now. If the crank comes out that I can not clean it up then I will go that route.

If I did, is it recommended to go to a forged crank? and H-Beam rods?? Can I get away with a cast crank and I-Beams??

quote:

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Originally posted by orangemach1:
If I did, is it recommended to go to a forged crank? and H-Beam rods?? Can I get away with a cast crank and I-Beams??

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Remember that forged cranks are stronger, but the pro stock cars from the late 70's and early 80's ran mostly cast cranks. They might not have ran them for years, but when they did, they spun them 10k-11k rpm. As for the rods, an Eagle H beam would be stronger than a factory I beam rod, but something like a Lentz or Oliver I beam billet rod is stronger than the Eagle H beam.

Personally, I would not be afraid to use a properly prepared cast crank. For the cost, I would probably go with Eagle H beam rods. And truthfully, the motor I am hoping to build next is going to use an offset ground cast crank with a 3.7 stroke and sbc rod journals.

That is what I have now, Offset stock crank cut for sbc rods. Chevy performance part I-beam rods are on it. Don't know if this was the best choice by the builder.

When I took the engine apart it had a hole in one of the lifter bottoms. The source of my lost power has finally surfaced. The cam is wiped out now. When I pulled the 1st and last end cap the bearing stayed on the crank. Looks like I might have saved some more parts looking for another problem. The crank mains look good, should clean up, but I haven't pulled all the caps yet.

I almost feel that if I am going to upgrade the rods to H-Beam, replace the pistons I am almost there with a 393 where I can get off the shelf JE (206069) pistons and Scat crank and rods. It might be just as expensive once I get some custom pistons made for the 3.7 stroke.

Have you guys done any business with Flatlander Racing?? They have some really good prices on Scat Forged cranks ($549) and rods ($369).

I will have to check my rods and see what length they are. I need to start taking more of the short block apart.

I looked up the part number for the wiseco pistons, I am interested since you mentioned those. But the Wiseco Site says they are made for a 3.5 stroke and 6.2" rod? Is this right??

They do have the 1.23 compression height which is what I am looking for.

$600 isn't bad, it is more than the off the shelf JE (206069 for the 393ci) I can get for a touch under $500.

quote:

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Originally posted by orangemach1:
But the Wiseco Site says they are made for a 3.5 stroke and 6.2" rod? Is this right??

They do have the 1.23 compression height which is what I am looking for.

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That may be what they are *made* for, but when you start changing rod lengths and stroke, the only thing that is of concern is whether or not the compression height is correct for your combo. And they are. It's suprising the number of *catalog* pistons you can find that will work with oddball rod lengths and/or strokes. It jsut takes a little research and some math.