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Author
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Topic: lock up or non lock up convertor please explain
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20708
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-25-2003 05:21 PM
   
Can any one explain for me te differene between the two and what the pro's and con's are to both.
Some reason I just can't seem to get it.I've read up on both,but which is better for street,and racing and why?Thanks sorry for the dumb question.  ------------------
SCOOP 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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scottford351
Journeyman Posts: 96
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003
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posted 06-25-2003 06:37 PM
A lock up converter couples the motor solid to the tranny so there is no slippage.This eliminates a lot of heat that was caused from converter slippage so the tranny will last a lot longer.How ever it eliminates torque multiplication .so you are trading performance for long life and gas mileage.------------------
91 LX 398w street/bracket 6.88 1/8 60FT 1.44
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20708
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-25-2003 09:07 PM
So the non lock up is better for racing?
It seems like the lock up would be better.How does a lock up eliminates torque multiplication? ------------------
SCOOP 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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68F100
Gearhead Posts: 2609
From: Burlington, Iowa
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 06-25-2003 10:16 PM
I'm guessing no "flash" on a lockup converter. Like putting a manny tranny in gear letting out the clutch and THEN mashing the gas instead of dumping the clutch...kinda sorta.But I could be WAY off Scoop 
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ciscokid
Gearhead Posts: 161
From: Ooltewah, TN
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 06-26-2003 10:12 AM
Lock-up converter has a clutch that physically connects the converter "pump" (which is attached to the converter housing which is in turn connected to the crankshaft) to the impeller (or turbine) that is connected to the trans input shaft. A non-lock-up converter is always a fluid coupling between the engine and the trans, and therefore will always have some amount of slip. On a lock-up converter, when the lock-up clutch is engaged, the converter is no longer a fluid coupling, it is a mechanical coupling, and the engine and trans input shaft are locked together. When the lock-up clutch is NOT engaged, the lock-up converter works exactly like a normal converter. There is a stall speed, torque multiplication, and all the rest. In normal use, the lockup clutch is not engaged until the car is moving along at a decent speed in high gear. In most cars the engagement feels like another gear change. Lockup converters were introduced to improve gas mileage. It eliminates the inefficency of the fluid coupling and drops the engine RPM at highway speeds. It also reduces trans heat generation that is generated by the converter slip. Not all transmissions can use a lockup converter. Old C4, C6 and FMX trans do not have the necessary support for a lockup converter. The C5 was a C4 with the lockup provisions. The AOD and E40D transmissions do use lockup converters. The clutch is usually engaged electrically. I don't know of anyone using a lockup in pure racing situations. The only benefit might be that you could have a higher MPH at the end of the track. The large clutch probably prevents their use on small diameter high-stall race converters. For street use with a lower stall speed, if your trans supports it, I can't think of a reason not to use one.
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BlueMule
Gearhead Posts: 1556
From: Kent Island, MD USA M&M # 2423
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 06-26-2003 10:57 AM
Sorry to shang-hai this post, but is the 4R100 a lock up?------------------
-Paul 70 Mach1 351C
79 Ranchero GT
97 Expedition XLT 5.4
00 SVT f150 Lightning 4149 of 4966 Born on: 06/26/2000 'life's tough... it's tougher if you're stupid.'
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20708
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-26-2003 02:44 PM
So would a lock up put more stress on the trans shaft?
I'm asking for my dads T-bucket project.He is using a mild 351w with an AOD and 4.11 traklok.The AOD is out of a truck all stock.He's worried that a lock up will put to much stress on the stock input shaft.He's loves to race and I know he'll drive the car hard.
I thought a lock up would be better,what do you guys think would work best.LOCK UP
or
NON LOCK UP ------------------
SCOOP 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 06-27-2003 01:03 PM
use the lock up, it will be the same as a normal non-lock up when not engaged, so it shouldn't have any more stress
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Bluegras
Journeyman Posts: 64
From: Easton,Pa.
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 06-27-2003 04:06 PM
For that application, he should not have a problem in a light car. I run a super charger in a 4000 lb AOD car as many others do without short term problems.
He knows, i'm sure, that doing these things result in parts not lasting forever.
The biggest problem is with twisting the small input shaft (there are two) under very high launch rpm loads using slicks. The shaft will only handle just so much shock torque.
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scottford351
Journeyman Posts: 96
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003
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posted 06-27-2003 08:07 PM
You can get a one piece input shaft for the AOD.It does away with the lock up in D and OD
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Bloose
Gearhead Posts: 755
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 06-28-2003 05:02 PM
You can get a high strength input shaft from TCI. I highly recommend it. I have a LU TC in my AOD and even with street tire and a 2000 RPM stall the input shaft was twisting. Their not cheap but it sure beats pulling the trans to replace it later.B-loose
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 20708
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-28-2003 07:46 PM
This is a truck AOD does that make any difference on the input shaft?------------------
SCOOP 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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