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Author
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Topic: Starter locks engine solid.
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ukracer
Journeyman Posts: 65
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-02-2003 11:21 AM
   
More problems. The starter on my Mustang (69 351W/toploader) sometimes jams and locks the engine solid. Tried rolling the car backwards in 4th gear but won't free up. End up having to take the starter off and re-fit and it's OK then. Can't see any evidence why it should jam up and it's been fine since I got on the road last October, this problem is only the past few days. Any ideas?
Cheers, Martin.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-02-2003 12:50 PM
Martin my guess would be a bad starter.------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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ukracer
Journeyman Posts: 65
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-02-2003 01:43 PM
I tried another starter but had to keep the nose (auto vs manual) and although it hasn't locked up again yet, it did make a nasty clunk noise yesterday, like it did with the other starter when it jammed. I don't trust it and as it jams the motor solid, I can't even push start it.
Cheers, Martin.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-02-2003 01:47 PM
Did you try a new solenoid too?Is the starter wire good shape? I'm just trying to help.  ------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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rockafellz
Gearhead Posts: 1291
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 06-02-2003 02:02 PM
May be the starter bendix going bad. Check to make sure all connections to the starter and solenoid are tight. I had that issue once and the starter cable wasn't tight enough.Erik ------------------
1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress 1966 Ford Mustang Coupe
Dad's - Original Unrestored
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ukracer
Journeyman Posts: 65
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-02-2003 02:43 PM
No, you have to understand this is not electrical. Solenoid was new, wires are all good anyway. When the starter locks, the engine will not turn over, even rocking in gear or towing. The starter (or some part of it) is jamming on the flywheel/ring gear and stopping the engine from turning. Taking the starter off frees up the engine but nothing is visibly wrong (just a little wear as you would expect) As I said, tried another stater but had to reuse the nose to fit the engine so the Bendix is different. I guess this is not a common problem then?
Cheers, Martin.
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 422
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 06-02-2003 03:35 PM
Martin, have you looked at the teeth on the flywheel ring gear? It may be that there is a bad tooth. If there is some way to look at the teeth have someone turn the motor over by hand while you watch the teeth go by.John
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ukracer
Journeyman Posts: 65
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-02-2003 04:00 PM
When it locked the second time, I marked the damper so I would be able to look at the teeth on the flywheel when the starter was out. Sure, they show signs of wear (as any 33 year old flywheel would!) but not excessive, plus I would have thought that the starter would just 'slip' if the teeth were too worn. I have certainly had ring gears with more wear and no problems so I am a bit stumped.
Cheers, Martin.
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johnmustang
Gearhead Posts: 4235
From: Vancouver Island , British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 06-02-2003 04:15 PM
Just a thought , could your ring gear have a slight warp in it? This would cause the lock-up you are describing.JOHN ------------------
65 2+2 FASTBACK
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage
MY TRUCK
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ukracer
Journeyman Posts: 65
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-02-2003 04:40 PM
I suppose it *could* have but it's been fine for the past 8 months (since I built it) so I don't see why it's suddenly happened. The more I think about it the more I am convinced that the starter teeth are jamming on the ring gear teeth 'end-on'. It's the only way I can imagine this happening. I really don't want to pull the trans to fix the ring gear. Grrrr.
Cheers, Martin.
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cracing
Journeyman Posts: 55
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 06-02-2003 06:29 PM
Martin, you said you had to use the same nose on the replacement starter,did you use the same bendix/drive from the old starter? If so your problem is most likely in the bushing at the end of the nose,also there is one inside the bendix,slack in one or both could produce these symptoms. Seems I heard somwhere that there were different flywheels with different ammount of teeth on them, not sure about your combo on that.
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ukracer
Journeyman Posts: 65
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-03-2003 11:25 AM
Nope, switched the whole armature c/w Bendix and also replaced the bronze bush in the starter nose due to wear. I started it many times today and only once did it make the dreaded 'clunk' but did not lock up. Beginning to suspect the ring gear now.
Cheers, Martin
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scottford351
Journeyman Posts: 47
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003
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posted 06-03-2003 05:05 PM
I had a simular problem with a tractor.The flywheel teeth got battered from the bendix hitting it.I had enough room to get a die grinder in there to remove the burrs.------------------
91 LX 398w street/bracket 6.88 1/8 60FT 1.44
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ukracer
Journeyman Posts: 65
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-06-2003 11:32 AM
OK, quick update for interested parties. The starter motor has not given any problems since I changed the Bendix/armature assembly and the bush in the nose. Hopefully it was one of these things at fault and I am optimistic that it will be reliable again now. Thanks for all replies and ideas.
Cheers, Martin.
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Marty Buth
Journeyman Posts: 28
From:
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 06-06-2003 02:56 PM
I had the same problem. I changed 2 starters and the problem continued. The cause was a crack in the bell hosuing that allowed the starter to move when the torque from the starter allowed the crack to expand and, in effect, move the starter position relative to the flywheel. Welding the bell housing crack fixed the problem. Don't know if it has anything to do with your problem, but just in case!
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cracing
Journeyman Posts: 55
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 06-07-2003 07:16 PM
Anytime I can help.
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