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Author Topic:   Converter problems
Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 295
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-18-2003 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey guys,

This weekend I put a TCI 3000rpm stall converter in my car. WOW, what a difference. It's like I got a new motor!!! Works great!

But, I have one problem now, I have a leak. It's not a leak like the Alaskan Valdeez but it's bad enough. It's coming from up front somewhere. I'm thinking from the input seal??? Drips pretty good when it's parked. So, any ideas??? I'm thinking I may have damaged the front seal when I put in the converter. The job was a PITA and I was under a time deadline. In my haste I could have damaged it. On the other hand it did slide in very easy, so I'm not sure what I could have done.

Next weekend I am going to pull the trans again. This is to replace the stock input shaft which I found was twisted. So, I'll have an oportunity to fix my problem, if I know what to fix. Any suggestions? Is it likely the seal? Could it be the converter itself? I don't know where the converter could leak from???? I need to be prepared to fix the problem before I start because I will again basically have one day to do it (I'll have more time this time though).

Thanks for any suggestions,
B-loose

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Tea'sGrabber
Gearhead

Posts: 240
From: Seattle, Wash.
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 05-18-2003 11:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tea'sGrabber   Click Here to Email Tea'sGrabber     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like the seal to me...I did the same thing... sucks... Jim at JPT told me to put vasoline on the snout when installing converters..

------------------
Todd 71 Mav Grabber All orig 306 cu.in. Cast Iron heads. Carillo Rods.Best et. 10.71 @ 124 thru the mufflers.

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ciscokid
Journeyman

Posts: 77
From: Cleveland, TN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 05-18-2003 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It could be the converter. I had a converter with a pinhole leak in the weld around the outside circumference where the pump and cover are welded. It leaked worse when there was high pressure (obviously) like when it was on the transbrake. Was a complete bitch to find, and that was with a powerglide where the bottom of the bellhousing is open and you could see the converter. On a Ford trans with a 360 degree bellhousing you are not going to be able to see anything. The bellhousing can also hold a lot of fluid which can drip out when you are parked.

You might want to take the converter to a local shop and have it pressure tested while it is out and you are changing the front pump seal. Might keep you from having to do it all over again.

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 295
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-18-2003 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think that it would be a pin hole leak in the converter (at least I am hoping not) as it is a used converter. The guy used it to run down the track a few times then pulled the whole works and went to a C4. The guy seems to be up front and honest so I beleive he would have let me know if there were any problems, but then again you never know. One of the problems is I will have a lift available to work on the trans, but on a Sat. I could leave it on there for a day but not much more. So if I have to pull the converter and take it in I will have to do it laying on my back. I really really don't want to do that. If I have to I have to, but I want to avoid that at all costs.

I think I'm going to pull it this coming weekend, put a new seal in, make sure I grease the converter hub (I didn't do this last time because I thought the seal would be wet enough from use, maybe that's my problem), and see what happens. We just sold our house so I will be moving in the next few weeks. Then I'll be working on our new house so I may not get to drive the car too much anyway. If it still leaks I'll pull the trans a third time this winter. I hope it doesn't come to that.

If there are any more suggestions on what to look for please let me know.

B-loose

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 37258
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 05-18-2003 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It sounds like you didn't put in a new seal when you changed the converter, is that right? If so, there's your leak.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 295
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-18-2003 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No I didn't. I will this time though. The trans only has about 3000 miles on it. Should I have changed the seal anyway??? With this low of mileage is it still likely the cause of my leak??? I am hoping that's all it is. After finding the twisted input shaft this gives me a reason to take it out again. I'll replace the shaft with a TCI shaft ($185, OUCH), and I'll put in a new seal. This job is a PITA so I wish I didn't have to do it again, but such is life.

B-loose

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-18-2003 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It must be nice to run those 4.62 gears and still cruise at 2500rpm on the highway.That when it all pays off I'm sure.
Just trying to show you the bright side.
So the 3000rpm really help you out,HMMM.

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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 5144
From: British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-18-2003 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:

So the 3000rpm really help you out,HMMM.


RON,

You have that look on your face again

JOHN

------------------
65 2+2 FASTBACK
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-18-2003 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnmustang:
RON,

You have that look on your face again

JOHN


No I must stay focused sticky tires 1st then more speed parts.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 37258
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 05-18-2003 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bloose:
No I didn't. I will this time though. The trans only has about 3000 miles on it. Should I have changed the seal anyway??? With this low of mileage is it still likely the cause of my leak??? I am hoping that's all it is. After finding the twisted input shaft this gives me a reason to take it out again. I'll replace the shaft with a TCI shaft ($185, OUCH), and I'll put in a new seal. This job is a PITA so I wish I didn't have to do it again, but such is life.

B-loose


My experience has been that when I've tried to reuse a converter seal after I've had the converter out, I've ended up with a leak 100% of the time. I would have been tempted to reuse your 3000 mile seal too, but these days I just always change the seal.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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scottford351
Journeyman

Posts: 58
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003

posted 05-18-2003 10:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scottford351   Click Here to Email scottford351     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a 3000 TCI street fighter that i was going to use behind a 398w in a LX.My question is how close to 3000 does the converter stall? thanks

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 295
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-19-2003 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not exactly sure yet. Tires break loose at about 2800. If I had to guess I'd say the true stall is about 3000~3200rpm with my motor. I bought 15x8 rims w a 4.5"bs and the 265/50-15's rub the quaters, so as soon as I get the new 4.75" bs rims I should have traction and get a better idea of the true stall.

Before this converter, my launch sucked and I couldn't even spin my 235/60-14's now I can barley keep from spinning them. When I get hook the car launches great. Can't wait to get the new seal and shaft in, get the drag radials on, and get my butt to the track!!!

B-loose

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scottford351
Journeyman

Posts: 58
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003

posted 05-20-2003 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for scottford351   Click Here to Email scottford351     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was afraid that it wouldnt stall but about 25-2600.Every body says to get one over rated because they never stall as much as advertised.Im using a c5 ranger converter that stalls 2400 .get ya a set of stickies and whip up on those chevys!! thanks man

------------------
91 LX 398w street/bracket 6.88 1/8 60FT 1.44

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 295
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-20-2003 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
It must be nice to run those 4.62 gears and still cruise at 2500rpm on the highway.That when it all pays off I'm sure.
Just trying to show you the bright side.
So the 3000rpm really help you out,HMMM.


Thanks man!

I was really starting to wonder about the 4.62's though. Like I said, I could barely spin the tires. I was expecting it to light em up pretty easy with that gear even with the 2K RPM stall. No such luck. Bogged off the line, but now, wow! I knew I was an idiot for not going with the 3K right from the get go, but I didn't know how much of an idiot till now.

I am really optimistic about how much this will help my ET's, we'll see though. I don't want to say .5 sec and end up with .2, but I'm really optimistic. Judging from my 60' times I have LOTS of room for improvement.

If the converter leak goes away with the seal I may run it at the track this weekend.

B-loose

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-21-2003 12:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd like to hear about how much it helped.Now you'll need all the traction you can get.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 05-21-2003 06:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If it is indeed the seal leaking a 1/2 pint of brake fluid will cure it temporarliy. It will not hurt the rest of the trans components.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 295
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-25-2003 12:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's very interesting alex. I was thinking about something to swell the seal.

I don't think it is the seal after all. I pulled the trans this weekend. I put in a new seal, the new input shaft and modified the govener while I had the trans out. The Job went pretty well until the end when I over filled it by 3 quarts #@@$!#. After figuring it out and draning some of the fluid I was on my way. Unfortunatly now that it's back together it still leaks. So I get to do it one more time. I guess I'm going to have to pull the converter and have it checked at a trans shop. This really sucks! It must be the converter though. I have a new seal, still leaks. With the last converter installed there were no leaks, so the new converter must be the problem.

I'm getting good at pulling the trans though. It would be a much easier Job if I didn't have to pull the entire exaust every time (including headers). I hope three's a charm.

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N266fords
Gearhead

Posts: 1039
From: Spokane ,WA USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 05-25-2003 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for N266fords   Click Here to Email N266fords     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At the risk of sounding stupid have you checked your drain plug on your torque converter.Some have a drain plug and it could be leaking there.Just my .02

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scottford351
Journeyman

Posts: 58
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003

posted 05-25-2003 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for scottford351   Click Here to Email scottford351     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had a leak problem simular to yours and it was the paper gasket behind the pump.It was leaking to one of the bolt holes and coming around the bolt head.

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 295
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-25-2003 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by N266fords:
At the risk of sounding stupid have you checked your drain plug on your torque converter.Some have a drain plug and it could be leaking there.Just my .02


Not stupid at all. When I first got it home I was hoping that was it. I remembered that it had a plug and I never checked it. Unfotunately it was tight. It was also dry around the plug so that's not it. Good thought though, thanks for the suggestion.

One of the things I noticed is that on the snout of the converter (where the seal rides) one side is more polished than the other. This makes me think that there may be a problem with the converter. I'm going to check the B+M I had in there and see how that looks.

I think I am just going to bite the bullit and order a new converter next week. I should have it for the weekend and be able to get it together Friday night. Then I'll go to the races Sat. I'm really bummed about this because I'm itching to get to the track!

Pulling the converter and taking it in just isn't in the cards because I can't let the car sit that long. I may send the converter in later and get it fixed and then sell it to recoup some of my money, we'll see.

B-loose

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 295
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-26-2003 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I looked at the B+M converter and it look like the seal was riding the same way as the one I have in there now. Is it possible my problem is with the converter centering in the crank? The crank I have is from a stick car (car previously had a 3sp), I have the pilot bushing out. I would think that the trans has a bushing to locate the converter, but I'm grabbing for straws. I guess my best bet is to take the converter into a local shop but I don' know what the'll find.

Any more suggestions???

B-loose

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clevelandstyle
Gearhead

Posts: 800
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 05-26-2003 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clevelandstyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is possible that the converter was welded up out of square. I have chucked up a B&M in a lathe for a friend and it wobbled like crazy. The pump drive was way off. His trans/converter was leaking too. If it wobbles, there is no way the seal can make contact all of the way around.
There is nothing like a "quality" custom converter. That's why they cost the big bucks.

------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V

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scottford351
Journeyman

Posts: 58
From: reedsville ohio usa
Registered: May 2003

posted 05-27-2003 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scottford351   Click Here to Email scottford351     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bloose ,you mentioned modifing your govenor.Im always curious about tranny modifications,could you let me in on that or any other tricks I can do to a c4 THANKS.

------------------
91 LX 398w street/bracket 6.88 1/8 60FT 1.44

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Bloose
Gearhead

Posts: 295
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-27-2003 09:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bloose   Click Here to Email Bloose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, I know nothing about the C4, then again I really know nothing about the AOD . All of the MODs I did were recomended by Trans-go in the instructions for my shift kit, including the govoner. Though I did lighten the govoner slightly, but this was after talking to the Trans-go people.

Sorry,
B-loose

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