In the 2nd time trial I got to go heads up with a new Vette that had some kind of 435 badges on it. I was a whole car length in front until I missed 4th gear!

The stupid sycronizers are just not letting me shift when I go over 6000 rpms. I feel the clutch release, the gear releases OK, but when I try to put it in the next gear it just grinds until I give up and slow down. I shifted it last year at 7000 rpms and didn't have these problems. I added a pint of gear oil in the winter after installing the new motor and was wondering if maybe I used the wrong weight oil. Will the weight of the oil change the way the blocking rings work in a toploader? I need some advice here please!

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1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 274 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
1/4 mi: 12.11 @ 114 mph (7.66 @ 92 mph @ 1/8)
DanH

I believe the toploader requires a GL-5 lubricant. A good choice would be Redline 75w90NS. This is their GL-5 'hypoid' oil that does NOT contain limited slip additives... which most gear oils contain. (not the best for standard transmissions)

If you want to go with a GL-4 90W lube, their MT90 will allow the syncronizers to work even better.

http://www.redlineoil.com/frames/gearoil.htm

I've had decent luck with Mobil 1 75w90 synthetic, but will probably be trying one of the above this year. I'm going with Royal Purple 85-140 in the detroit locker. My shift point is 6800 rpm.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

quote:

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Originally posted by n2oMike:
Did your 1/8 mile times improve after adding the 2.5" exhaust?

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I only had one decent 1/8 mi run. The drag radials forced me to keep my launch rpm down to 2500 but I did manage a 7.68 @ 93.5 mph with a 1.79 60'. I felt a slight bog at about 20' so I'll work on the timing and jetting now that I have a baseline.

The TL 4 speed is due for an oil change so I'm gonna try to find some good NS gear oil to put back in it. David Kee website says to use 80W-140 for problem shifts and competition use. The weather is pretty warm in Georgia so I may try that first.

Keep after it Dan,with traction your going to be seeing alot of 11's.

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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

He finally gave up and bought a Jericho.

Back when the 65s and 66s were new, another friend had a 65 with a healthy 289 that did exactly the same thing. Something about the design of the toploader, I guess.

Hope you can figure something out.

I hope it's a long drive to the track, and you get plenty of runs in to keep thinned out. In the winter around here, you can't hardly get a car/truck with thick gear oil in the tranny to shift until it's been driven a bunch of miles. Even in warmer weather, gear oil (especially 85w140) will be awfully thick until it's been run a while.

Good Luck!

Scoop,
I had to watch him fly by me when I missed the gear and I just coasted to a 12.58 @ 90 MPH. But he stopped by after the race to shake my hand and tell me that I had him worried there for a second.

Tell that vette guy not to get too comfortable.

Good Luck!

BTW: It was 90 deg. in the lanes and the stock 3 core radiator and electric fan never let the coolant get over 185*.

quote:

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Originally posted by bluestreek:

Scoop,
I just coasted to a 12.58 @ 90 MPH.

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SHOW OFF,

Dan was giving you bad time about the vett.I can't wait for you to get that trans working right.I'd like to read about your low 11 run.

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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

quote:

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Originally posted by bluestreek:
....and was wondering if maybe I used the wrong weight oil. .... I need some advice here please!

---

Dan,
I've used Redline's #58404, 'Shockproof - Lightweight' gear oil in my Toploader for 3yrs without any problems.....

E-mail my/our buddy Glens67, he's got shifting a toploader down to a science. I think it's in your cluch adjustment.

[email protected]

quote:

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Originally posted by steve'66:
Dan,

he's got shifting a toploader down to a science. I think it's in your cluch adjustment.

[email protected]

SteveW

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Yeah, didn't he say he yanks that shifter like he wants to break it?

Erik

------------------
1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress

1966 Ford Mustang Coupe
Dad's - Original Unrestored

quote:

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Originally posted by rockafellz:
Yeah, didn't he say he yanks that shifter like he wants to break it?

Erik

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I use Red Line MTL You need to adjust your clutch for max disengage. You may have to use a heaver return spring on the fork to frame to over come over center problems. What clutch are you using? Don't be afraid to have the throw out bearing in contact with the clutch fingers, lightly,
If you haven't broke a shifter handle your not pulling hard enough!

quote:

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Originally posted by rockafellz:
Yeah, didn't he say he yanks that shifter like he wants to break it?

Erik

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One of my buddies who drives a stickshifted 64 fairlane that runs 6.20s has a saying painted on his dash that fits right inline with Glen's way of thinking. It says
"Drive it like you hate it".

quote:

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Originally posted by Glens67:
If you haven't broke a shifter handle your not pulling hard enough!

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I test drove one of my old high school buddy's VW scriroco one time and he had one of those 8 ball shifters on it. I speed shifted it into 2nd and the 8 ball flew into the back seat.

Erik

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1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress

quote:

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Originally posted by Glens67:

If you haven't broke a shifter handle your not pulling hard enough!

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I'm using a custom 10.5" diaphram and I've never had any over-center problems. The clutch is releasing very high on the pedal and always hits hard. It just doesn't want to mesh sometimes at 6000+ rpms and can happen in any gear. The high temps seemed to make it worse.

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1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, Xtreme 274 Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi.
So far: 12.11 @ 114 mph (7.68 @ 93 mph)

I hate to say this, but it's very possible that your shifting problem is the gears inside the tranny. Each gear has little sharp pointed teeth that the syncronizer slides on and off of when you shift. They become worn over time. If you miss a gear too many times at high RPM it chews the points right off and makes them round instead of pointed. Once that happens it doesn't matter how hard you jerk the shifter or how you adjust the clutch or shifter it won't go in at high RPM.

It seems like I see a lot of people with high RPM shifting problems on the various Mustang sites that I visit and they all are using diaphram clutches.

TOO !!

quote:

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Originally posted by JCQuinn@work:
IMHO the shift problem is the diaphram clutch.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JCQuinn@work:
IMHO the shift problem is the diaphram clutch. I used to race a 67 with a stock toploader and a long style clutch, shifted at 7,000 and never had a problem going to any gear. The tranny had normal gear lube in it and there was no modification done to the synchronizers or gears.

It seems like I see a lot of people with high RPM shifting problems on the various Mustang sites that I visit and they all are using diaphram clutches.

If you put in a high pressure long style clutch be sure to reinforce the clutch linkage. Mine bent visibly with a good clutch in it until I bought a second transfer bar (the clutch linkage going from the clutch pedal to the block) cut off the horizontal section and welded it to the original.

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In the old days when I street raced with Chevies, in particular, the first thing we got rid of was diaphram clutches. The reduced pedal pressure was good, but the high RPM shifts, power or otherwise, really sucked. Back then, a Schieffer clutch was the way to go, but they are long gone.

I peeled most of the lining off a long style rebuilt in about 3 days once. My parts guy laughed at me when I asked about warrantee.

Seemed like they wouldn't guarantee for 7 grand power shifts.

The pedal pressure required will be greater with a good long style, but the shifts will be better.

After I put in the other toploader with better gear teeth, it shifted perfect and I used the very same clutch, pressure plate, shifter and all.

I've rebuilt a few toploaders and this problem with the worn gear teeth is very common on well used or abused toploaders. Anybody who has rebuilt toploaders and is familiar with their inner workings will know what I'm talking about.

Right now I'm running a totally stock big in/out toploader in mine that I rebuilt and put all new gears in. I'm pushing about 700 hp through it and missing gears is never a problem. It shifts like butter.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike_R:

...I just couldn't hit the gears without granny shifting.

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Mike_R,
What do YOU call granny shifting?
What is YOUR preferred shifting technique?

-- stabbing the clutch or no clutch during a shift?

-- letting off the gas pedal for an instant or holding it down while shifting?

I'm thinking that the shifting technique may also have something to do with tranny gear life and sucessful shifts at 6K+ rpms...

Any other 'Stick-Yanker' care to share their shifting technique?

My normal racing shift is to hold the gas pedal to the floor and simultaneously press the clutch to the floor and jam it in gear. I try to do both very quickly. Also a rev limiter is highly recommended to do this.

I think the best way to keep from tearing up the toploader engagement teeth is to first have a tranny that has good (pointy) teeth to begin with and second don't miss a gear in the first place (for whatever reason). If you start missing gears, find out what's wrong and don't continue missing that gear. For instance if there is a problem such as the diaphram clutch the guys were talking about. Fix that before you try to power shift again or you before you know it you will ruin the gear(s) by missing them.

Missing a gear at high RPM is very destructive to the engagement teeth so it's a viscuous cyle. It's alot like using a phillips screwdriver bit in a drill. It works great as long as you keep it engaged but once it slips off it starts tearing off the points of engagement. The more times it disengages (like a missed gear) the worse it destroyes the screw.

Nowadays, I just shift really fast. I don't let off all the way, but don't leave it matted either.

Of course, with a stock toploader, powershifting on the bottle (using a throttle switch) just isn't an opton... but every now and then I'll find myself doing it off the bottle every now and then... but I don't make a habbit of it.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

I finally got a chance to change the oil in the 4 spd. The old oil was pretty thin and very metallic so I let it drain overnight. I looked around for hours the next day trying to find an oil that had no limited slip additives and finally gave up and bought some Pennzoil 85W-140 semi-synthetic oil. So far it seems to be working great! The gear changes feel silky smooth without the grabbiness that it had before. I tested it several times in every gear at 6500 rpms without any misses.

The real test will be at the track though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluestreek:
...So far it seems to be working great! The gear changes feel silky smooth without the grabbiness that it had before. I tested it several times in every gear at 6500 rpms without any misses.

The real test will be at the track though.

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Dan,
Don't let those slush-box boys rattle ya!

Ryan