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Author Topic:   Breather to air clearner base
Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-28-2003 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why do some guys hook up one of their breather cap to the base of their air cleaner.Does it help to clean out the crank case,does it HURT performance at all.

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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 470
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-28-2003 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is used in conjunction with a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system and is one of two methods employed to draw fresh air into the crakcase.

  • The first and earliest system is open emissions) and draws (and filters) fresh air through an open element (has internal filter) in the crankcase breather mounted on either the rocker arm cover or the oil fill tube, usually mounted in the intake manifold.
  • The later system (introduced 1968) draws fresh air from the air cleaner assembly and has no provision for air intake through the oil filler cap. This also prevents blow back fumes from entering the atmosphere as they are now drawn into the carburetor.

If you will notice, some of the closed systems draw the frsh air from the inside of the air cleaner element. Others have their own small filters mounted in the side of the air cleaner assembly. Some draw from the outside of the element and actually introduce unfiltered air into the crankcase.

So, if you are designing a system or retro-fitting, make sure it has a source of filtered air.

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Glens67
Gearhead

Posts: 384
From: Petaluma
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-28-2003 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glens67   Click Here to Email Glens67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On an engine that does not have excessive blow by the PCV system pulls air through the oil cover vent cap. The hose connected to the air cleaner allows filtered air to be drawn into the motor. Same thing with a vent cap with a filter on it, but you have to make sure and keep it clean. With excessive blow by the crankcase fumes and oil carry over fouls the inside of the air cleaner and can cause Carb. problems.
Enjoyed meeting you Sat. I found the web site
http://www.centuryperformance.com
Glen

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Glen
67 GT 390
65 Galaxie 500 XL 4 Speed
It was not a Red Light they gave me a Slow Tree
I WAS NOT LATE the Tree was Fast

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-28-2003 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dont run a PCV now I was just wondering what the hose to air cleaner was for.
I have a breather on both covers right now.SO it sounds like it's ok the way it is.

Glen sorry we didn't get to talk longer.We were real busy on Sat.I hope to see and your car on Sunday.

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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 470
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-28-2003 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I dont run a PCV now I was just wondering what the hose to air cleaner was for.

How do you ventilate the crankcase?

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-28-2003 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just with a breather cap on either cover.Doesn't that work too?

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 470
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-28-2003 11:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please read the following URL;

-PCV Theory-

Excerpt;

quote:
A neglected PCV system will soon fail to function and the result can be expensive as well as troublesome for the car owner. If the crankcase is not adequately ventilated, the motor oil will quickly become contaminated and heavy sludge accumulations will begin to form. Internal parts, not protected by the motor oil, will begin to rust and/or corrode due to the water and acids that will become trapped within the crankcase. If the PCV system is not functioning properly, the flow of crankcase vapor into the intake manifold will not be properly metered.

This, in turn, will upset the fuel/air mixture for combustion and cause rough idling or even stalling of the engine. Furthermore, intake and exhaust valves, in addition to spark plugs, may well be burned and rendered useless, prematurely affecting performance and requiring expensive repairs. To assure trouble-free performance of the PCV system and, in turn, the engine and vehicle, routine maintenance of the PCV system is absolutely recommended and required.


Crankcase ventilation is a must, whether it be with a road draft tube, PCV or another vacuum method such as a vacuum pump or exhaust vacuum method.

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-29-2003 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But what about the motors using an open system,a breather on both valve covers.Doesn't that allow the system to vent and breathe both?
I have not had a PCV on my in over 4 years.I have always just used two breathers one for each cover.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 7226
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-29-2003 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
But what about the motors using an open system,a breather on both valve covers.Doesn't that allow the system to vent and breathe both?
I have not had a PCV on my in over 4 years.I have always just used two breathers one for each cover.


Ron,

Some peole do that, but there's nothing sucking the fumes from your crankcase. A pcv valve and a breather are better at evacuating the crankcase than dual breathers.

SteveW

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-29-2003 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve my spacer nor my carb has a port for a PCV valve ?

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 470
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-29-2003 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:


Steve my spacer nor my carb has a port for a PCV valve ?


-Here You Go-

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-29-2003 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How will that work with my 600Holley and 1" four hole spacer ?
I was looking at the 1/4" one can I just add under my spacer or will that mess things up,like jets vacuum advance ect...
And it seems like $50 is alot for a 1/4 spacer anyways.

http://www.webcutter.com/newstore/default.asp?Company=Ponycarburetors&pagetoload=product.asp&productid=1322&catcode=82&show=1

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 04-29-2003).]

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[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 542
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 04-29-2003 02:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work   Click Here to Email JCQuinn@work     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Drill and tap a hole on the manifold or spacer that you have. Screw in a fitting and you have an PCV tap.

John

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-29-2003 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To chicken to tap the manifold,but maybe the spacer.Being it's a four hole spacer does it matter which hole front, rear, left, right,or would any of them work.
How would I get the plug to seal into a phenolic spacer mine looks like "wood" kind but it's canvas layers or something like that.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 542
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 04-29-2003 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work   Click Here to Email JCQuinn@work     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would drill from the rear of the spacer into the divider between the secondary holes and put some kind of sealer on the threads of the fitting. I dont know if it is critical where it is, I seem to remember some aftermarket manifolds that had the tap in one of the port runners.

John

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 470
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-29-2003 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You want the vacuum source (tap) either at the rear of the spacer (equally between the two runners) or tapped into the intake manifold at the upper plenum so as the bypass fumes that are drawn in are divided equally among all the runners, i.e. you don't want to tap a single runner and have all the fumes drawn down that one cylinder.

If your spacer is laminate, do like the other gentlemen suggests and drill a hole for the intake pipe and use a sealer (PERMATEX Aviation Sealant Liquid PN 80019) to keep it in.

-Here- is a past post from another board that may give you a few ideas to utilize a system and not have it ugly up your engine. There are three pages on it, so read them all.

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-29-2003 08:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read it a few times.I still not ready to tap my manifold.But if I drill between the two rear holes.Wont that kinda defeat the 4 hole.Because I'll end up blending the two rear holes together.

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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 470
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-30-2003 04:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you have a chance to pickup a factory or aftermarket spacer, you will see how they actually tap equally between the two rear venturi openings. But in your case, it would be OK to tap into either one as the vapors are still going to be mixed equally between all the runners. I understand your concern as to defeating the purpose of the four hole spacer.

If your manifold plenum is tall enough to accept a tap, you cound have it done by your machine shop. I don't know what type of material your spacer is composed of. If too soft, it may not be able to be drilled for the opening easily.

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