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Author
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Topic: Roller cam/roller rockers
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-16-2003 12:35 PM
   
It seems that every one I talk to now asks is your motor a roller?
Tell me if I understand this right.Roller cams and rockers are better because that dont have the friction of reg rockers and lifters.There for they allow the motor to rev more free,and free up some HP too.I was told that if you used the same cam one roller and one not.The roller would make at 20-40 more HP across all rpms.
At want point is it worth it to get a roller.Is a stocker motor like mine worth the extra money to add a roller to?
Or does it pay off more if the motor is alittle built?I'm not looking to do a roller cam in my motor.Just looking for some info right now. And whats a better bang for the buck,roller rocker,or lifters.And how much power would either give alone and together.  Just another one of my many questions.Sorry but I'm still learning.
The cars guys that ask is your motor a roller.Reminds me of the 70's when every one had to have a DOUBLE pumper,or your car was not fast. 
Or even better multi carbs,because if one double pimper went fast 2 would go even faster.  So what ever you guys can tell me about roller lifters and rockers,would help a lot. ------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-16-2003 12:36 PM
I was also told that the roller stuff cuts engine temp as much as 10% cooler.------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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rockafellz
Gearhead Posts: 1348
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 04-16-2003 12:53 PM
I think it's just another "hot-air" question. Stock fox body 5.0s had hydraulic rollers.  So it's nothing that new or special. I personally like to tell people I'm using a solid lifter flat tappet .Now I hear good power can be made with a SOLID ROLLER but needs maintenance just like a solid lifter flat tappet. Erik ------------------
1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress 1966 Ford Mustang Coupe
Dad's - Original Unrestored
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 1048
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 04-16-2003 01:43 PM
According to some general physics, the friction energy of the lifters against oil against the cam will create heat, and will also cause it to be harder to spin the cam. This will be a greater amount of friction if you are spinning higher rpms.The roller lifters will have a smaller co-efficient of friction, but it's still there. So the roller lifters will create less heat, and less drag on the cam. And if there is less heat that's nice, and if there is less drag on the cam then the crank doens't need to work as hard to spin it so there should be a power increase, but it depends on what rpms you spin and probably what oil you use as well. But the friction inside the roller which is following the cam may also be plagued by friction, and cause the performance benifits of the roller cam to be compromised. The main reason i think that roller lifers stuck around is because it allows faster ramp speeds.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-16-2003 07:06 PM
Is there an RPM thats makes a Roller really pay off.I.E. like over 5000 or under 5000 rpm does it really make a difference?
I'd think the more RPM's your motor turns.The more a roller would pay off.------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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jsracingbbf
Gearhead Posts: 2160
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 04-16-2003 07:51 PM
SCOOP,
I think ALEX will probably come along an answer this one correctly, but I'll take a stab at it. I think that with a ROLLER CAM the big benifit is the more radical cam profile you are able to run. THAt is where the big performance gain comesin. That does not mean a roller cam HAS to be wild. It can be mild and the benifit is still the low friction. Good results can be obtained with a well matched hydraulic or Flat tappet. It all depends on your application. I am a firm beliver in ROLLEr ROCKERS though. Even if you don't run a roller cam. They are getting cheaper. I saw some of the scorpions like ALEX has mentioned the other day on a SBC and I have to admit, if I needed a set, I'd buy those. Some folks ask if your motor is a roller motor and they don't know what one is themselves. Next time some one asks you that ask them, DO you mean the cam or the rockers? and see what they say. If they act like you just invented the wheel tell them why yes of course my motor is a roller and they won't know the difference anyway.
------------------
Jerry
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car
Jimmy: ( S-10 driver/friend ) Hey Jer how do you like my flames I painted on the old Bowtie?
Jerry: Nice but you didn't have to do that, if you ever get it going fast enough at the strip it'll catch fire.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 5248
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 04-16-2003 08:33 PM
Here's my opinion, and it's an opinion based on my past experiance. In a motor like mine, even though it's a full race motor (but no where near the same level as Alex's), a roller cam isn't worth it, even on a motor that see's 7500 rpm gear changes. 2 years ago, I sheared the pin in the front of my roller cam, it bent 12 valves, 4 or 5 pushrods, the trunnions in 3 (I think it was 3, might have been more) Crower stainless rockers, and damaged the entire set of roller lifters. I couldnt afford to replace the lifters, so we put a solid flat tappet cam that was really close to the same grind as my roller. The car ran exactly the same. Same 60', same ET, same mph. Based on that experiance, I don't think a roller is any benefit unless you want to spin 8000+ rpm.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 01:27 PM
Alex do you have anything to add to this?Rob,thats the kind of info I was hoping for. Jerry I can understand the less friction part helping out. To me it seems like a lot of extra money for a 20hp gain. ------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-17-2003 01:41 PM
I think that the guys asking you the questions are just using "magazine" talk and trying to sound cool.
"Roller motor" has become a generic term for late model 5.0 hydraulic roller camed engines or retrofitted hydraulic camed engines. When making conversation these days, the common question for a smallblockfordophile that encounters a hopped up fellow enthusiast is just that.
"Say dude.....is that a roller motor?"
LOL
for 90% of the S&S deals we do, a nice solid lifter cam and some decent roller rockers work just fine.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 01:53 PM
Thats the impression I was getting Alex of the term "ROLLER motor".
At what level would you say a roller cam and roller rockers,would really pay off?
Or is it more up to each to say if the extra money is worth it or not?------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-17-2003 02:27 PM
Right now Scoopers, the only thing you coauld really benifit from is a nice set of Comp Cams 1.6 Magnum rockers. Your stock ones are lucky to be 1.5.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 4320
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-17-2003 03:05 PM
scoop, the way alex races, looking for hundreths even thousandts (sp) of a second, a 2-3 hp gain can make the difference between a win or loss or even qualifing or not qualifing. but the way me and you race it probably would not make any difference.
the stock rockers are not consistant. one might be 1.6 and the next one 1.54 and the next one 1.49. a good set of full roller rockers will be consistant plus the benifit of a little less friction.
did this make any sense at all???------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 03:35 PM
Mike I understand you just fine.
I didn't know that stock rockers weren't all 1.6.------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 4320
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-17-2003 04:05 PM
they are supposed to be 1.6 scoop. but they are stamped out in mass production lines and probably not even checked.------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-17-2003 04:13 PM
Mike explained it very well Scoop.
We sift through about 60-80 stock aftermarket rockers to find 16 of the closest ones to 1.60 for Tony's Capri as the ruels dictate stock rocker arms.
The closest we ever get is 1.55 or so. We've never found a 1.60 yet.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
IP: Logged |
rockafellz
Gearhead Posts: 1348
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 05:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I think that the guys asking you the questions are just using "magazine" talk and trying to sound cool.
"Roller motor" has become a generic term for late model 5.0 hydraulic roller camed engines or retrofitted hydraulic camed engines. When making conversation these days, the common question for a smallblockfordophile that encounters a hopped up fellow enthusiast is just that.
"Say dude.....is that a roller motor?"
LOL
for 90% of the S&S deals we do, a nice solid lifter cam and some decent roller rockers work just fine.
I knew it!! Erik ------------------
1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress 1966 Ford Mustang Coupe
Dad's - Original Unrestored
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 05:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rockafellz:
I knew it!! Erik
Your just a know it all.  So I know a Ford guy in town.That keeps telling me when he went to roller rockers,no other changes he picked up 10mph in the 1/4. ------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
rockafellz
Gearhead Posts: 1348
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 05:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Your just a know it all. So I know a Ford guy in town.That keeps telling me when he went to roller rockers,no other changes he picked up 10mph in the 1/4.
Is that your next mod Scoop? Sounds like a good "bang for the buck" mod Scoop. Erik ------------------
1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress 1966 Ford Mustang Coupe
Dad's - Original Unrestored
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 14201
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-17-2003 05:34 PM
Maybe just trying to be a learn-ed man for now.
I hate talking to others about cars and not being up to date.I have a ton of books and read them when ever I'm not on here.But I've found this site to be 2nd to none for the best tech information out there.Alex would the comp roller rockers bolt right up,or do I need screw in studs 1st.Also would the 1.6 cause any problems with the piston clearence,or any other area?
------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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