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Author Topic:   Which is best for my setup?(long)
streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-03-2003 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been posting power gaining questions for several times now, but I still cant get a suitable conclusion. I have a 289 bored .030 over. Edelbrock performer intake, holley 600 carb, hooker headers, dual exhuast, c-4 tranny, stock rear gears(2.79). One main thing I know is that gears will do a lot, and I plan to get some, but still I want more. Heres what I've considered and what I think about them:
CAM:adds good bit of power, but also requires changine valve springs and stall converter. IMO, too much money for not enough power
HEADS:Good power gainer, but too expensive for my budget.
N20:great power adder for cheap, but in the long run, filling up the bottle adds up, and it will hurt the engine
SUPERCHARGER:at first I wasn't considering this, b/c of money, but I found out that I can get the unit for just over $1000 and fabricate the rest. This seems like my best bet b/c all you gotta do is hook it up tune it and go.
After all this, what do you think I should do. I think the supercharger would be best, but could I run enough boost to do anything on this stock engine? Just what do you think? All suggestions are appreciated.

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BlueMule
Gearhead

Posts: 858
From: Kent Island, MD USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 04-03-2003 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueMule   Click Here to Email BlueMule     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Even with low boost levels, you must consider upgrades to your fuel delivery system. You can grenade an engine just as easily with a leaned out blower as you can with NO2.

------------------
-Paul

70 Mach1 351C
79 Ranchero GT
97 Expedition XLT 5.4
00 SVT f150 Lightning 4149 of 4966 Born on: 06/26/2000

'life's tough... it's tougher if you're stupid.'

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-03-2003 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
streetstang, i think you answered your own question. you could spend $3000 on the engine and still not get the results that you would get with $200 worth of gears.
good luck buddy

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mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 761
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 04-03-2003 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by streetstang67:
gainer, but too expensive for my budget.
N20:great power adder for cheap, but in the long run, filling up the bottle adds up, and it will hurt the engine
SUPERCHARGER:at first I wasn't considering this, b/c of money, but I found out that I can get the unit for just over $1000 and fabricate the rest. This seems like my best bet b/c all you gotta do is hook it up tune it and go.

How will nitrous hurt the engine any more than a supercharger would?


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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-03-2003 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capri man:
streetstang, i think you answered your own question. you could spend $3000 on the engine and still not get the results that you would get with $200 worth of gears.
good luck buddy


What Mike said,

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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-03-2003 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What about this: I get the rear gears (matching the powerband of the new cam) and upgrade the cam (keeping stock stall converter). What cam and gears do you suggest? How much will that change quarter mile times? Then, if thats still not enough for me, I'll get a small shot of n20 and crane xr-i ignition. I want this car to be very streetable b/c 99% of the time its on the street. So I can't go crazy with the gears or the cam (gas mileage). What do you think now?

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-03-2003 07:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
3.55 gears with a trac lock,and a 270h cam and the ignition system.With some good traction"tires" and you'd be real happy with the results.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-03-2003 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What are times now?

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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-03-2003 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wouldn't 3.55s kill my top speed and cruising rpms? Also, I don't want a cam that I will hate between stop lights...I want low end as well as top end. Also, I'm keeping my stock stall.

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-03-2003 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sounds like you need 2 cars!!!

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mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-03-2003 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i really did consider that, but the whole budget thing really gets in the way, lol

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mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 652
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-03-2003 08:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Measure your tire diameter and then play with one of those online rpm calculators.The gears will make a big difference.3.50s are a good all around ratio and won't kill your top end unless you want to go over 125 mph.(6000 with 25 inch tires).Play with different gear ratios and pick one you can live with.A mild cam may even improve your gas mileage while steady cruising.My brother had good success with a decent cam and some rhoads lifters.

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1968 mustang j-code [email protected] 306cu.in, stock ported heads,weiand exellerator,650 holley DP,hedman hedders,comp 292 Magnum cam,4-speed,8 inch 4.11 detroit locker http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy.html

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-03-2003 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Go for the 3.50 gears and get the tallest tire you can fit for the highway,and the shortest tire you can for track.
A mild cam like mine I can't even tell it's not stock at idle.I'd go for a cam above mine for alittle more power.

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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-03-2003 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
fastymz, u basically just got cam, lifters, and headers, right? Why didn't you have to get new springs? My engine was just rebuilt and people are telling me to get new springs no matter what cam I get as long as it is more than stock.?. Now that you have made that upgrade and realize the power gains, what do you suggest for me? Wouldn't the 270h be a little too much for streetability and my stock stall? thanks

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-03-2003 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was trying to do a cheap cam change.Thats why no new springs and rocker arms or push rods.
The stock spring should hold up to the 270H cam just fine.I dont see you going over 6000rpm.If my motor was fresh I would have gone for the 270h too.It's just alittle bigger then I have now.It will give you alittle lope,which always sunds good.

In my opinion I think the 270h will work fine with your stock converter as long as you get the 3.50 gears.

You need to write out what you want from your car. ET,and gas milage,and what your willing to put up with and not.
That will help you figure out which way to go.
There is nothing wrong with having a fun cruiser Mustang.They are a blast to drive and still gives you a trill when you hit the gas.


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SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 04-04-2003).]

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-03-2003 08:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I get the 270h cam and the 3.55s, what do you think I will run in the quarter?

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-03-2003 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do run now,and what kind of traction do you have now.What shape is the trans in,do you have a shift kit.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-03-2003 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dunno what I run now, but I want faster. Traction not too good because of the nonlocking rear end. Transmission was also recently rebuilt and doesn't have a shift kit...thats a possible later upgrade

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-03-2003 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd say go to the track 1st.
2nd get better traction from tires,and a posi system.
At get the gears,then see how fast it is.Then do the cam.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead

Posts: 278
From: USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 04-03-2003 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MidLifCrisis   Click Here to Email MidLifCrisis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Streetstang67. I just went thru this same soul-searching dilemma this past winter. I have a '67 convert with a 289, C-4, and 2.79 rear. My engine was tired and needed a rebuild, but I wanted to retain the stock/retro appearance and keep it streetable. I also wanted more power than stock. I contacted Edelbrock and Compcams via their websites. I described what I had and what I wanted. Edelbrock suggested the Performer intake and a 600-650 carb. Compcams suggested the XE262H cam. What I like about this cam is that it has more lift than the HE268H that I was considering, and it may not have the power of the 270, but it can't be too far off. Even if it is, I am pleased with my combo. With the wimpy rear it still has great acceleration, not drag racer fast- but impressive low-end torque for the street.
During the rebuild, my engine was bored .030 over; the stock heads were done with GT40 valves and ported on the exhaust to remove the thermactor bump. I got new springs because mine were tired, and new lifters for the new flat tappet cam.
You already are very close to what I have. I figure I am around 265 Hp @ flywheel and would do a low/mid 15 in the quarter.
I would cam your motor, then drive it. I would add a better gear if you were not happy, which should get you under 15 or close. If you had the funds, I would go for the GT40 heads listed in the classifieds and put them on with the cam. BTW, I once had a deal on a supercharger, but after I priced the missing parts, I could have bought a new one complete. Good luck and keep asking questions. That is the only way to make an informed decision. Charlie

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-04-2003 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MidLifCrisis:
Good luck and keep asking questions. That is the only way to make an informed decision. Charlie

I agree with that,I ask lots of questions.And over the last two years I've learned alot.

Good advice on the cam,but I still think more gear is needed.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-04-2003 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What other cams are good? I know the comp 268 and 270 have been suggested, but what about crane or ford racing/motorsport cams? Will cam hurt streetability since it takes away some low end?

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-04-2003 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sure there other cams out there.But if people on here have used these cams and tell you first hand how they work.Why look at others.
Charlie spelled out what he used,which is almost what you have already.He had a car that was alot of fun on the street and ran in the 15's.That sounds like a great deal to me.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 1291
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 04-04-2003 04:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz   Click Here to Email rockafellz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
270H, 3.55:1 gears, bigger tire diameter. I wouldn't wimp out on that cam JUST because of the so called "loss in low end". Too many people say that and over-exagerrate it like the car won't move AT ALL below 2500 . It really isn't that big a deal. Especially on the street.

Erik

------------------
1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress

1966 Ford Mustang Coupe
Dad's - Original Unrestored

[This message has been edited by rockafellz (edited 04-04-2003).]

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rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 1291
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 04-04-2003 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz   Click Here to Email rockafellz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
I was trying to do a cheap cam change.Thats why no new springs and lifters or push rods.

Hey Scoop, I thought re-using lifters on a new cam wasn't recommended?

Erik

------------------
1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress

1966 Ford Mustang Coupe
Dad's - Original Unrestored

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-04-2003 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rockafellz:
Hey Scoop, I thought re-using lifters on a new cam wasn't recommended?

Erik


Oops that should read rocker arms,not lifters.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead

Posts: 278
From: USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 04-04-2003 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MidLifCrisis   Click Here to Email MidLifCrisis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rockafellz:
270H, 3.55:1 gears, bigger tire diameter. I wouldn't wimp out on that cam JUST because of the so called "loss in low end". Too many people say that and over-exagerrate it like the car won't move AT ALL below 2500 . It really isn't that big a deal. Especially on the street.

Erik


I agree, but I think one must take into consideraton what RPM range that you will be operating within a majority of the time. For a steet car with stock torque converter and stock rear gear, I went with the factory recommendations and am quite satisfied with the results. For achieving a low E.T., more RPM may be needed. Using what Streetstang67 already has, I offered what I thought were the next logical steps within a restricted budget. If S.S.67 is willing to give up mileage and more concerned with quarter mile E.T.'s, than he should use the calculators to estimate the tire size, rear gear, RPM, etc. to find what components are needed to reach his quarter mile goal. A 270 cam, RPM manifold and a 750 carb with a 4.11 rear should easily make a 13 second car. The key thing here, as stated in many other threads of this kind, is properly matching the components for optimum performance. I am no expert except when it comes to operating within a budget Otherwise, I too would be running a blower Charlie

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-05-2003 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Considering what I've mentioned about driving this car on the street and gas mileage while at the same time remembering what I said about increasing power, do you suggest I get the comp 268H cam with 3.25s in the rear, or the comp 270H cam with 3.55s in the rear? How much of a difference is there between the two? Thanks

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-05-2003 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by streetstang67:
Considering what I've mentioned about driving this car on the street and gas mileage while at the same time remembering what I said about increasing power, do you suggest I get the comp 268H cam with 3.25s in the rear, or the comp 270H cam with 3.55s in the rear? How much of a difference is there between the two? Thanks

For what you seem to want I'd go with the XE262H and 3.25 gears.Charlie already said he has that set up and runs in the low to mid 15's.

With out more convertor and tracktion and gears I dont think the difference would be much.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-05-2003 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
isn't that a little small? I'm willing to give up a little streetability, I just didn't want to kill it.

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-05-2003 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That cam is alot like the cam I just put in my car.Is it alittle same yes,but you can't have it all.
My car does pull better now then before.Not sure how much faster it is yet.
Whats low end to you,I mean at what RPM do you want the power at?
I dont worry about what happens below 1500rpm.When you get on it,you wont see the lower side of 2000rpm any ways.

------------------
SCOOP
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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streetstang67
Gearhead

Posts: 305
From: SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-08-2003 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetstang67   Click Here to Email streetstang67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most of you have suggested to go naturally aspirated and that seems like a good way to go, but whats wrong with the supercharger setup? You've suggested different cams and heads and gears, but supercharger hasn't even been mentioned, what about it? thanks

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