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Author Topic:   advice on cam to kill bottom end
capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-14-2002 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i now run the e-303 cam (498-498 lift and 280-280 dur)
my problem is i need to kill a little bottom end because i am spinning a little every 3-4 passes at the track. i want to move my powerband up a little. i have access to a lunati cam. it has 500-512 lift and 286-294 duration. how much , if any will it help. it is ground 4 degerrs advance. would it help any to install it another 4 degrees advanced? thanks

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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Moneymaker
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From: Lyons, IL, USA
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posted 12-14-2002 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That would give you even more bottom end Mike.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

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Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-14-2002 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
then would it help to install it retarded?
(like the driver) if so, how much. thanks

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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Fordwiser
Gearhead

Posts: 217
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 12-14-2002 12:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fordwiser   Click Here to Email Fordwiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't know your suspension set up, but what about working on that? If you're looking for a better et, seems like a little better 60ft time would make more improvement then a little more horsepower downtrack. If you're looking to be more consistant a little better hook would help that.
Roger

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-14-2002 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks guys, i am looking for consistancy. i have done everything i can to the suspension short of tubbing the car. (cant afford that) keep the ideas coming. here is a link to my setup. thanks

http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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67coupe
Gearhead

Posts: 384
From: dallas NC usa
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-14-2002 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67coupe   Click Here to Email 67coupe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ive got to ask why the 500 cfm holley 2bbl?

------------------
Josh
67 coupe with 351c
8.41 in the 1/8
1.90 60'
at 82.03 mph
94 Explorer
30 model A currently rustbucket
in process 67 convt with efi 5.0 and t5

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 443
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 12-14-2002 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
nice car.....and it's simple, tub the car :P

i'm confused as to the holley 500 as well

what pressure are you running the tires at on the track?

you could try running headers with bigger primarys if you wanna kill your low end torque and keep your high end

[This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 12-14-2002).]

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-14-2002 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
in my feeble mind, i think the 2-bbl is a little more consistant than the 4-bbl. there is only about 1-2 tenths diff in the performance of the 2-bbl vs any of the 4-bbls that i have tried. thanks

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mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 1677
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 12-14-2002 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike, How many passes do you have on your slicks? Even if the wear hole still has plenty of hole, they may be worn out. Is this a new problem? If your slicks don't have any more oils in them they are junk. Not saying they are there yet, just asking. I wouldn't "kill" any bottom end especially on an eigth mile track. You could retard the cam but I wouldn't. Was the track prepped correctly? What was the track temp, cold hot. Getting a car to "hook" is probably the single biggest talked about topic at any given drag track on any given day.

------------------
Jerry
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car

"This is FORD Country, on a quiet night you can hear a chevy RUST!"

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-14-2002 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capri man:
in my feeble mind, i think the 2-bbl is a little more consistant than the 4-bbl.

Several years ago, I read an article about an Anthony Bertozzi (big time bracket racer) engine. It was a built 440 (I believe) and the carburetor was a 600 double pumper.

It didn't say why it ran that small carb, but here's my theory...

Since a carb that small is only going to flow so much air, it's going to be less affected by barometric pressure and temperature than a larger carb. The little carb is going to be maxed out regardless of conditions. No matter what the temperature or pressure, pretty much the same amount of air is going to get into the engine.

I would figure a restrictor plate under the carb would be better, since using the carb as one, might cause excessive booster signal on the top end.

Anyway, just something to chew on.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
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posted 12-14-2002 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike,

How about 3.50 gears, that'll kill off some bottom end torque.

SteveW

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-14-2002 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've heard the opposite about small carbs. Since they cant draw as much air, a little change in the density altitude affects them far greater than a big carb. I read an article one time about why tunnelrams were so consistent, and it was because they were ingesting so much air, it didnt affect the performace near as badly when the air changed. Basically, I dont really know since I have no real experiance with small carbs), but that was what I read.

I think you should be able to get your car to hook better without killing any bottom end of the motor. My buddy with an 80 mustang runs high 1.30 60' times with what I consider small tires, 28x10's. And he doesnt have any real exotic mods done to his car, and it hooks hard, (plus it has a Jerico 4 speed, and we all know how much more violent they are compared to a footbrake car).

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clevelandstyle
Gearhead

Posts: 638
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-14-2002 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clevelandstyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You could even go up to a 28 inch tire. That would get you more traction and kill some effective gear ratio at the same time.

------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-14-2002 11:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, did anyone ever think of just retarding the timing to kill the bottom end? If you set it at 30 degrees that would do it Mike.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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steve'66
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From: Sonoma,CA,USA
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posted 12-15-2002 12:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
So, did anyone ever think of just retarding the timing to kill the bottom end? If you set it at 30 degrees that would do it Mike.



Alex,

That's too easy. And a great tip as always.

SteveW

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kid vishus
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Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
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posted 12-15-2002 06:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
So, did anyone ever think of just retarding the timing to kill the bottom end?


But it's more fun to do everything the hard way!

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-15-2002 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yea, there you go spoiling all my fun. i wanna get my hands greasy!!! a-hole!

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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Moneymaker
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Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-15-2002 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Fordwiser
Gearhead

Posts: 217
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 12-15-2002 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fordwiser   Click Here to Email Fordwiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see you have Lakewood 50/50 for the rear and CE front struts. I had Lakewoods all around on my T-Bird and the best 60ft ever was 1.50 and that was on a really good track,usally high 1.5s to low 1.6s I bought a set of Strange adjustable struts and rear shocks, so far i've only got the rear shocks on and only ran it once on a very cold and slick track. The 60 fts were all in the 1.52-1.53 range. I think on a better track, and once I get the front struts on it's really going to help alot!
Roger

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SteveLaRiviere
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From: Saco, Maine
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posted 12-15-2002 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capri man:
yea, there you go spoiling all my fun. i wanna get my hands greasy!!! a-hole!


That's not very Christmassy...

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

Be sure to remember our sponsors, Mustangs Plus, NPD, and Osborn Reproductions.

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Fastymz
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Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-15-2002 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike send some of that EXTRA bottom end power to me.I can use all I can get.


SCOOP

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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Moneymaker
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Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-15-2002 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I could give your old lady some advice on how to just kill the driver you know.
That would solve all your problems.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 3385
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-15-2002 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yea, he is my (and her) biggest problem!!

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-16-2002 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Mike,

You ever tried launching in 2nd? I wonder how consistant that would be?

SteveW

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Moneymaker
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Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-16-2002 05:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Trying to launch in second gear will heat up the trans too much.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-16-2002 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex,

It would create more heat from the converter, but would it be hard on the tranny itself if the cooler kept the fluid temp down. It would be a way to have 0 traction problems and big mph on the top end kinda like a T-stop. I might have to try it someday when nothings going on.

SteveW

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-16-2002 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The band and drum will not like the added heat Steve.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-17-2002 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK

It's sad us bracket racers trying to slow down the cars for consistency isn't it.

SteveW

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-17-2002 12:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now you know why I class race Steve.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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