|
Author
|
Topic: More leaf spring questions
|
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-24-2002 04:57 PM
   
Sorry to keep going over leaf springs in here,but what effect do the leaf spring helpers have on traction.I have a pair that bolts on to the back half of the leafs they help to raise the car.The ones I use are one short leaf that gones from the shackles to the axle housing.They also stopped most of the travel of the leafs,between those and the lift bars I have.The rear now will only go up or down very little to not at all.
Will clamping the srpings like SteveW did do the same as the leaf spring helpers,as far as keeping the rear from coming down on my tires.I need the height and firm rear because my tires stick out from the fenders alittle.SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-24-2002 06:55 PM
All your helper do is exactly what you wanted them to do Ron. They hold the back of the car up over your tires. They DO NOT aid in traction, they DO NOT help your suspension work. Save up and get a good set of springs or get yours rebuilt locally. The clamp the sh*t out of the front halfs.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-24-2002 08:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
All your helper do is exactly what you wanted them to do Ron. They hold the back of the car up over your tires. They DO NOT aid in traction, they DO NOT help your suspension work. Save up and get a good set of springs or get yours rebuilt locally. The clamp the sh*t out of the front halfs.
Thanks Alex,I might look into getting mine rebuilt.If I got new ones which would be the best,and then which would the best value.
SCOOP
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-24-2002 08:29 PM
Ron, other that Fiber Glass units from Flex-i-Form, I do not make and leaf spring recomendations. I know of no, none, nada, zero, nationwide leaf spring distributors that are worth a sh*t. Of the dozens I have tried to install, bought, and tried, none were within the spec they were claimed. 
I only buy from local spring shops where I can talk face to face with the builder. That way I ALWAYS get what I want. 
I highly recomend that you do the same. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" [This message has been edited by Moneymaker (edited 11-24-2002).]
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-24-2002 08:39 PM
Thanks Alex as always I leave this post smarter and with a smile. SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
mustangboy
Gearhead Posts: 652
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002
|
posted 11-24-2002 10:00 PM
I had a local shop rearch my springs and add a 1 leaf.Only cost me $120 bucks.Its probably not the optimum setup for dragracing but at least the car sits right again.  ------------------
1968 mustang j-code sprint.13.69@101 306cu.in, stock ported heads,weiand exellerator,650 holley DP,hedman hedders,comp 292 Magnum cam,4-speed,8 inch 4.11 detroit locker
IP: Logged |
jsracingbbf
Gearhead Posts: 1677
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002
|
posted 11-24-2002 10:14 PM
I hate to throw another question into this, especially since I don't even run leaf springs, but.... I've always wondered why are MONO leaf springs so desirable? I kept a set around here that a guy gave me but I finally sold them to some guy who said they were the best things since sliced bread.------------------
Jerry Smith
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car
"You buy them books send them to school & look what you get"
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-25-2002 01:13 AM
Remind me to respond on mono leafs in detail tomorrow please. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-25-2002 12:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Remind me to respond on mono leafs in detail tomorrow please.
When dose the class start on the MONO leafs. SCOOP
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-26-2002 01:15 PM
It's really simple.
A mono leaf spring does not have to fight with the other leafs to maintain control. SInce the attatchments and bushings are on the main leaf, it does most of the work. You will not get the upward lift because there is no separation of leaves. Years(early 60's) ago when CHrysler engineers first began developing automatic transmissions for racing, they discovered that the upward and onward motions promoted quicker ET's. This was accomplished by multiple leaves with strategic lengths and thicknesses. This is how the infamous Mopar SS springs were born. The tires of the day were very hard, shock technology was slow, and they had not yet learned how to accomplish weight transfer successfully. GM learned early on in it's racing program with the Camaro, that the leaf springs should support the car, and the rest of the suspension componants should do their share work. Eventually costs came into play (1968) and a technologically superior mono leaf was found to be prohibitivly expensive to produce for assembly line cars. After a number of holeshots the factory mono leafs would fag out and lose their tension.
The racers began developing their own mono leafs (Bill Jenkins) and continued to use them in drag racing successfully. WIth todays high tech materials and CAD, mono leafs can be built in any rate and any configuration. IN the 60's ultra high strength steel mono leafs cost about $60 each. You could buy a good set of multi leafs for half that. That ratio still applies today. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-27-2002 02:42 AM
Alex thanks thats was very helpfull. SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
stk1201
Journeyman Posts: 6
From:
Registered: Jul 2002
|
posted 11-29-2002 02:18 PM
Hello Alex
What do you think of John Calvert's " Semi-Mono" Leaf springs???
I find one of the biggest problems with using "Cal-Tracs" is body lift even with the use of a GM (LOL) Mono leaf springs, but it doesn't seam to be a problem with cars that have installed these Semi-Mono leaf springs.
stk1201
IP: Logged |
dark7068
Gearhead Posts: 822
From: BC, Canada
Registered: May 2002
|
posted 11-29-2002 03:33 PM
Scoop, I worked in a spring shop for awhile hammering springs. Go to your local spring shop and talk over what you plan on doing with your springs. The guys KNOW there stuff, and can help you decide what you need to do to your springs. It will be cheaper and made to fit your car if you get your springs re-arched and added an extra leaf. Rick
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-29-2002 06:42 PM
JC's semi mono is a repackaged Landrum mono and 1/2. SOme of the west coast stick guys like them, but non of the REAL fast guys are using them anywhere else. I would not even consider them when with the far superior Flex-i-form available. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
stk1201
Journeyman Posts: 6
From:
Registered: Jul 2002
|
posted 11-29-2002 10:30 PM
Hello Alex
Who makes these Flex-i-form springs Alex and do they have a web site.
Also will they work with a Cal-Tracs, and if so who is running them???
stk1201
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-29-2002 11:02 PM
Yes they have a website Gerry. Velde, Morgan, Hall's, Corda's old Challenger, Wahn, Buel, Walters,Howard, me, all use them just to name a few. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 12-03-2002 02:36 PM
I went to the only two shops in town that do spring rebuilding.The one guys wants $180 to rearch and add one leaf.He said that my springs now have been rebuilt before and they are 4.5 leafs.He told me that he could me the ride hieght I needed but the ride would be stiff as heck.
The 2nd guy said the same thing as the 1st but he wanted $200 for the same job.
Now I've seen 5 leaf springs from mail order companys like mustangPlus that have 5leaf springs for $160 for the pair.Is it still better to go and have mine rebuilt? Also part 2 question what do you guys run for leaf spring shackels.Are the stock ones with new bushing ok,or do you make your own or? SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-03-2002 04:27 PM
Ron, is that price that they quoted you including "on car" labor? Maybe you should check as if that's the case it's one heck of a deal. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 12-04-2002 01:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Ron, is that price that they quoted you including "on car" labor? Maybe you should check as if that's the case it's one heck of a deal.
No that was me bringing the leafs only to them.If they do the on the car work it's $320+. SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-04-2002 09:56 AM
I would still have them done locally Ron. Try another shop. Let your fingers do the walking. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 12-04-2002 01:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I would still have them done locally Ron. Try another shop. Let your fingers do the walking.
Ok thanks I'll let you what I find.Maybe after the holidays are over. SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
IP: Logged |
Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000
|
posted 12-04-2002 04:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stk1201:
Who makes these Flex-i-form springs Alex and do they have a web site. stk1201
Here ya go stk1201:
http://Flex-A-Form.Com/ stk1201, share with us your race car setup, maybe we can provide you with some confusion, ya, er, I mean advice... Ryan ------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
In a '69 FB w/ 4-spd'd 306",
but the 460+ is on the stand!
IP: Logged |
Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 471
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
|
posted 12-04-2002 04:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
It's really simple.
You will not get the upward lift because there is no separation of leaves. Years(early 60's) ago when CHrysler engineers first began developing automatic transmissions for racing, they discovered that the upward and onward motions promoted quicker ET's. This was accomplished by multiple leaves with strategic lengths and thicknesses. This is how the infamous Mopar SS springs were born. The tires of the day were very hard, shock technology was slow, and they had not yet learned how to accomplish weight transfer successfully. GM learned early on in it's racing program with the Camaro, that the leaf springs should support the car, and the rest of the suspension componants should do their share work.
Can you 'splain? If I run monoleafs I wouldn't get the rear end rise? ------------------
'68 mustang 351 clevor- 10.92@124
'67 Stang, 351W -11.18@118
'69 351C Torino-14.90@100
'78 Pickup 351W-15.56@88
'79 Pickup 460 ET=??
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-04-2002 05:00 PM
Correct. The rear rise will be diminshed if not completly stopped with a mono leaf spring and "good" adjustable rear shocks.
The springboard waffle effect generated by multi leafs cannot take place. That's one of the reasons guy clamp the sh*t out of their multi leafs. Just ask Steve 66. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
|
posted 12-04-2002 05:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Correct. The rear rise will be diminshed if not completly stopped with a mono leaf spring and "good" adjustable rear shocks.
The springboard waffle effect generated by multi leafs cannot take place. That's one of the reasons guy clamp the sh*t out of their multi leafs. Just ask Steve 66.
Yep, a cheap mono-leaf with enough clamps on it. SteveW
IP: Logged |
n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
|
posted 12-04-2002 08:14 PM
You 4-speed guys that have cars that are prone to wheel spin run by a slightly different set of rules, though.When the engine is cranked to the moon at the starting line, and the clutch is released... something has got to give... or the tires will spin, or the car will bog. A fancy (sintered iron) clutch that is designed to slip on takeoff is the best option, but without one of those... you've got to absorb that shock elsewhere. I've got an adjustable sintered iron clutch, but for longevity, I keep my clutch adjusted fairly tight. (compared to race standards, plus it's got to hold up to nitrous) With non-clamped rear multi-leaf springs, I get PLENTY of body rise in the rear. The whole damn car jumps up like a frog when the green light comes on. It's funny as h*ll to watch, really... This excessive chassis movement (inefficient as it may be) absorbs some of that flywheel inertia, and helps the car launch without bogging or spinning excessively. An automatic car without serious traction issues would be faster WITHOUT all that wasted motion. One of these days, I'll adjust the clutch looser or install a different rear suspension... and start launching more quickly and consistently. Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-04-2002 08:28 PM
Mike, you are right, something has to give, but the rear leaf springs are NOT the right item. You will never be as fast as you can be by allowing a car to do two motions to accomplish the same goal. Up and out, not up, up and out. I have proven it over and over and over and over and over and over and over, and......well you get the point.
You of all people being a physics teacher should know that. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
|
posted 12-04-2002 10:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Mike, you are right, something has to give, but the rear leaf springs are NOT the right item. You will never be as fast as you can be by allowing a car to do two motions to accomplish the same goal.
Sure, I freely admit it! My car wastes a lot of energy lifting the body like it does. The energy required to lift the body could be better spent propelling the car in a forward direction. It's just a poor man's way of absorbing drivline shock to keep the tires from spinning. I could spend more time with the clutch, setting it up looser (but, I'd have to take it out every so many runs and sand or replace the disk) and install some really soft springs (which are impractical on the street) or expensive shocks... 4-speed's are a b*tch... especially for a lazy guy just trying to have fun doing double duty with one. Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
IP: Logged |
smblk t-bolt
Journeyman Posts: 67
From: port alberni BC Canada
Registered: Apr 2002
|
posted 12-04-2002 11:45 PM
what do you clamp your springs with? Is there an optimal number or spacing of clamps?64 fairlane
lots of fiberglass
even more bondo
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 12-05-2002 12:42 AM
3 to 4 or more on the front half of the springs for starters. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Mustangsandmore Forums
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
