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Author
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Topic: Difference between long and short tube heads?
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-17-2002 04:28 PM
   
Sorry that sould say headers,not heads.  If I go to long tube headers with out any other changes.Would I see any difference?
And if so what brand and tube size would you go with.For my 351w in a 65 mustang w/non power everything. 
I may try my shortys on my pops Tbucket and if they fit I'll give them to himOr just try and sale the them..And get me some real headers. SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 11-17-2002).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-17-2002 04:32 PM
Short tube headers are a complete waste of money. You might as well keep your exhaust manifolds. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-17-2002 04:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Short tube headers are a complete waste of money. You might as well keep your exhaust manifolds.
WELL that makes me feel alot better about the $100++ I paid for the short headers.  Now I already have the short one's what if any thing will long tube do for me.
And what brand and tube size should I go for? SCOOP
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs
2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 11-17-2002).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-17-2002 04:45 PM
Hooker SUper COmp #6208. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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Dubz
Gearhead Posts: 443
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 11-17-2002 04:59 PM
a try y header will be best....however i personally would go with (am going with for my 351W) with the hedman tork step headers. 1 1/2" primarys turn into 1 5/8" then to a 3" collector. Gives better backpressure for more torque but still allows good flow as the gas looses it's inertia ------------------
1974 Gran Torino, 351W
1970 Mustang Grande, 289
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-17-2002 06:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Hooker SUper COmp #6208.
I know alot of you guys us those headers.I'm just trying to get over the price of them.The headmens are 109.95 the hookers are 369.95  SCOOP
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs
2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 11-17-2002).]
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-17-2002 06:39 PM
Ron,The Heddman's will work fine for you. I used them on the old 351w and they were ok. 
The 408w has the better Hookers though. SteveW
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-17-2002 06:55 PM
Thanks Steve I think I'll get the long tubes this winter.And maybe add some cut outs.The cost diffenrce between the two will help pay for getting the exhaust modified for the long tubes and the cut outs.Now do any of you have any idea,what kind of difference I'd get from the long tubes over the short ones.
Like should I see a .10 of difference or a .005 or???
I know it's hard to say,but with all the experience you guys have.One of you should have a guesstemation. Thank for the help.
SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 3467
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 11-17-2002 07:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
The cost diffenrce between the two will help pay for getting the exhaust modified for the long tubes and the cut outs.
Just drive to SoCal, I'll cut back and weld up your tubes with collector flanges and then we'll go waste some rear tire tread ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-17-2002 07:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by V8 Thumper:
Just drive to SoCal, I'll cut back and weld up your tubes with collector flanges and then we'll go waste some rear tire tread
Sounds like fun I wish I could. I'll see if I can get my Father inlaw to weld it up for me.I can cut the pipes,that seems easy enough. SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-17-2002 08:19 PM
There is nothing wrong with the 88300 Hedmans. I missunderstood your question. I thought that you wanted the BEST headers that would make the MOST horsepower. I was looking ahead long term towards future planned modifications. Long tube open headers are always worth 20-25 HP on a stock windsor. You will gain at least .015 over manifolds and closed exhaust. You do not need cut outs. Hedman headers come with reducers that you weld to your existing exhuast pipes. They will be retained to the header collectors with three bolts. At the track you just remove the three bolts to open the headers and swing the pipe over to the other side. Very simple and cost effective. Us racers have been doing it that way since there have BEEN headers. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-17-2002 08:36 PM
No Alex you were right I did ask for the best.
And you told me what would be the best.
And yes I know I should just buy the hookers now.So when I do more mods I'm already there.
I have to balance price of mods to the gains of mod.If that makes sense.
It's just hard to pay 3times as much for headers.I didn't think about the collectors.When I talked about adding the cut outs.Your right again that would be and easy mod at the track.Or even at cruise night. So in a set up like mine,as it sits now.Would the hookers makes any more power then the hedmens.Both running hooked up to the muffs.
Or do you only see the differnce with the hookers,when you start doing mods.
SCOOP
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-17-2002 08:42 PM
Right now, today, with no other modifications, it's doubtful you would see much more performance from the Hooker Super Comps over Hedman 88300's.
Maybe .005 more than the Hedmans becuase of better sealing, port configuration, heat retention, closer to equal length tubes, longer collectors, thicker tubing, better insulation, and a few tiny issues like that. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-18-2002 12:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Right now, today, with no other modifications, it's doubtful you would see much more performance from the Hooker Super Comps over Hedman 88300's.
Maybe .005 more than the Hedmans becuase of better sealing, port configuration, heat retention, closer to equal length tubes, longer collectors, thicker tubing, better insulation, and a few tiny issues like that.
TINY issues now thats funny.
Ok so I know that you get what you pay for.I'll think about for alittle while.
Either way I think I'll be better off with the long tube headers.
SCOOP
------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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stang106
Gearhead Posts: 734
From: God's Country!... Port Alberni B.C. Canada
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-18-2002 12:10 PM
Ron,
I ran my big heavy ragtop with a 351W to 13.70 last summer with cast iron exhaust manifolds, I ground the protrusions down. If you are on a tight budget, some head work that you can do yourself should out-perform a new set of headers. There is tons of power to be gained in a good port and valve grind.
Dave------------------
'70 ragtop Stang
351W - 13.70 @104.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-18-2002 12:21 PM
Thanks Dave,I'm just always looking for cheap power. SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 33371
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-18-2002 12:25 PM
It's all a total package. You can have the best ports in the world, but if they dump into logs don't expect miracles.------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 Be sure to remember our sponsors, Mustangs Plus, NPD, and Osborn Reproductions.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-18-2002 12:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
It's all a total package. You can have the best ports in the world, but if they dump into logs don't expect miracles.
You want a total package,I have the total package. And now about my car,your right Steve.I'll keep chasing my tail,until I get all the right parts together.
I will get the long tubes either way this year.
Hey 20HP here and there really adds up. Hang in there with me you guys,I'm really listening to you all.And I'm working in the right the direction.Good things take time,and money. Thanks Ron
SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-18-2002 01:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Good things take time,and money.
Mostly just money.... SteveW
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-18-2002 02:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
Mostly just money.... SteveW
Your right about that,because if I found the money I know for sure I'd make the time. SCOOP ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 2.26 60'S
14.9 @ 90.86MPH 65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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