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Author Topic:   I Need HELP,
steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 5659
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-12-2002 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Need help with inconsistencies,

I broke down 7 runs last night by 0-60' et, 60'-660' etís, and 660' to 1320' etís.

The weather was the same on the last 4 runs, so Iíll just list those runs so weather isnít a factor.
Also sun on the track isnít a factor.

******0-60'et**60'-660'et**660'-1320'et
#4*****1.603*****5.431********3.999 #5*****1.550*****5.415********4.066
#6*****1.547*****5.377********4.028 #7*****1.565*****5.426********4.043

0-60' varied .056 sec. (Traction)

60-660' varied .054 sec. (Both shifts occur here)

660-1320 varied .067 sec. (All 3rd gear, s/b a measure of raw horsepower)

I understand that traction can vary, and shifts may not happen exactly the same each run, but the top end grunt seems to be inconsistent too. Do you guys have any thoughts of what we should do differently? Thanks!

SteveW

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 09-12-2002 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would place the only blame on the track surface Steve. It does not look that far out of line. All you can do is get some softer rear shocks so you can help keep the bite more consistant at this time.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 5659
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-12-2002 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex,

I agree, but look at the 1/8 to 1/4 mile time variances. Those times are greater than the 60'ers.

SteveW

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clevelandstyle
Gearhead

Posts: 494
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-12-2002 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clevelandstyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve, I may be wrong but I think you have to get the 60' times more consistant before looking at the other numbers. If your tires spin, the engine is in a different rpm range than if they hook. This means the power applied to the track is going to be different on a given run. You can verify this by looking at your quickest 660-1320 time. That run also has the slowest 60' time which means the engine was in the power band earlier in the run.
Does that make any sense?

------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 5659
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-12-2002 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ben,

Maybe, but here's a run from a week earlier.

60'=1.504 60-660=5.330 660-1320= 3.995

It was the car's best of 10.82

It's like we'll get a run that's good in the first 1/2 and weak on the top half followed by a run that's weak on the 1st half and strong on the top end. Usually equalling out to the same e.t. But then we get a run where both 1/2s are strong and breakout.

As it turned out last night she made the final round in CompRod, but the prior round the car ran better so we changed the dial for the final. You guessed it it, it didn't run the number and she got the r/u trophy.

SteveW

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clevelandstyle
Gearhead

Posts: 494
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-12-2002 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clevelandstyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congrates on the trophy, but sorry you didn't win.
How have to engine and trans temps been running? Did you run the final round while the temps were high from the previous run? Did you add fuel to the car between rounds? Were the slicks still warm or pressures high from the previous run?
I don't know. I'm just throughing out some ideas for you to think about.

------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 5659
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-13-2002 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ben,

That's interesting too, it was 92 minutes before run #4, 57 minutes before run #5, 32 minutes before run #6 (the quickest) and 15 minutes before run #7. I didn't check tranny temps, and I'm not sure if Melissa did either. I'll have to have her start recording it. Tire pressures were not checked between rounds either.

I noticed purple stains around both pri. and sec. carb vent tubes. I'm gonna run a hose between them and vent the top-middle of the hose.

Thanks for the tips, any others are more than welcome.

SteveW

[This message has been edited by steve'66 (edited 09-13-2002).]

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 3894
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 09-13-2002 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with the 60' times ned to be more consistent before the others numbers wll jive.

As for trans temp, on my car, the only time I have seen the temp have any affect on teh ET, is if it is hot, like over 190* when I pull out of the staging lanes. Otherwise, it just doesnt affect it at all on my car. It does affect how quickly the brake releases, I found that out last year when running both box and no box classes. As soon as I would lose in no box, and the car would cool off a little, I would go waaay red (.480's) the next round in box with the same settings in it. Happened every time. After about the 4th or 5th time (slow learner), I decided it wasnt me, and it must have been the car.

Another thing on your car. Does it have a scoop at all? Or is it getting all underhood air?

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 5659
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-13-2002 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rob,

It has the tiny Shelby scoop, maybe 1" X 7" opening.

SteveW

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 09-13-2002 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We talked about the brake and trans temp before didn't we Steve?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 5659
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-13-2002 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex,

Yep! BTW the brake held fine, I serviced the tranny and installed a B&M green button on the left of the steering wheel too. No red lights now!

SteveW

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 5659
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-14-2002 12:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK,

I'm not getting very far with this question. So I'll restate it;

What can I do to help down track consistency?

Bigger scoop, synthetic oil, warm up the drive train more, air shifter? etc. etc.

Any thoughts? TIA,

SteveW

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 9095
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-14-2002 02:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve I go with the bigger scoop.
Ok I had to say that,but really if your getting mostly under hood heated air.Then it would seen to me on the runs the motor is more hot.You'd get warmer air to the carb,less power.As air temperature drops,it's density increases.The rate of change is about a 1% increase in density for every 6 degree drop of temp.The air going into an under hood carb can easly reach 180.But by getting cold air in you can reduce the temp of the air at the carb as much as 75-80 degrees.This would be about a 12% increase in air density and offer the chance of an 12% increase in torque and HP.Depending on how cold the air stays the rest of way to the cylinders.Ok so I read about this too much.And no I cant prove it.But I've read many tests that show me it really works.

SCOOP

------------------

2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 09-14-2002).]

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 3894
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 09-14-2002 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I prefer getting the warm underhood air to the carb. It's more predictable. Have you ever been driving down the road about dusk with your hand out the window and hit a really cold pocket of air? You ever wonder what happens when your car hits one of those duing eliminations when you have a big scoop on it? That's where a mysterious .04 breakout comes from. I would rather know the air the motor is ingesting is the same temp all the time. Like underhood air. It makes the car more predicatable all the time. It might be a touch slower than a car with a big pro stock snorkel, but if it's more consistant, that's what wins rounds.

Steve, I still think the downtrack consistency is going to be an issue till you get the 60' times more consistant.

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 9095
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-14-2002 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rob you make a great point.I was just getting my .02 in.I'm not a racer,and all you guys have more track time then I will ever have.I see so many fast cars that use under hood air.So I know it must work just fine.I have always liked the idea of power from cold air,which for the most part is free power.Bracket racing is worlds apart from who ever gets there 1st wins.
Cold air systems is one of the few things I know alittle about.
And I still think Steve's car would look great with a small 429boss scoop.

SCOOP

------------------

2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 5659
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 09-14-2002 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Rob,

And everyone else, I think I'm getting it.

SteveW

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