Brought to you in part by:

.

Shop Eastwood for your Auto Restoration Needs!


  Mustangsandmore Forums
  Ford Racing
  Who know's how make a 10" tire hook?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Who know's how make a 10" tire hook?
steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-11-2002 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anyone have any ideas? No ladder bars or 4 links, leaf springs no tubs or relocated springs. I know it can be done, but how? Of course I'm talking about Melissa's Mustang (a '66 w/ a 408w c-4) It's best 60' was a 1.53 when the power was down, most 50'ers at "Infineon Raceway's" new track are 1.66+. Gonna try Sac Raceway this Saturday to see if it has more bite. The car just isn't consistant, most times it'll run a 1.66 then when eliminations start it'll run a 1.78 and lose. Are Cal-Track bars really that good, are slide-a-links better? How should the front end be set up? The car has lakewood bars, 50#s of ballast behind the filler neck of the tamk, 90-10 front shocks M/T 10-15x26" slicks at 15 psi and m/t skinnies at 35 psi in the front. A c-4 with 9" 4500 stall converter launching off the t-brake at 3000-3800. It'll run 124 mph, but usually at 11.0 et. Heeeelllpppp

SteveW

IP: Logged

Glens67
Gearhead

Posts: 325
From: Petaluma
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 07-11-2002 10:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glens67   Click Here to Email Glens67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steeve call this guy I like my CALTRACS

www.calvertracing.com/
He's a Ford Guy

IP: Logged

Glens67
Gearhead

Posts: 325
From: Petaluma
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 07-11-2002 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glens67   Click Here to Email Glens67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have used a piece of 3/4 rebar about 4' long jab one end into the tire at the back side then hook it through the bumper, back up about 2' and that should make a very good tire hook.
Hope this helps
Glen.
OH wait you wanted a 10" tire hook . That's alot harder to do.

[This message has been edited by Glens67 (edited 07-11-2002).]

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-11-2002 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let's see now.........?
65 type Mustang, near 500 HP, C-4 with a trans brake, leaf springs, 10.5 tires or smaller, and 1.38- 1.39 sixty foot times.

Naw, I don't think that I would know how to do make one work.


psssst, Steve, e-mail me.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

IP: Logged

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-11-2002 11:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Glens67:
I have used a piece of 3/4 rebar about 4' long jab one end into the tire at the back side then hook it through the bumper, back up about 2' and that should make a very good tire hook.
Hope this helps
Glen.

Glen,

You're fitting in real well.

SteveW

IP: Logged

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-12-2002 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex,

Thanks again for your tips.

I finished the rear tonight. 3/4" space on the left t-bar snubber and 1" space on the right. Front 1/2 of the springs clamped tight with 3 clamps each, left Rancho shock at one click and two clicks on the right. Two step set at 4200rpm, 6+ degrees of pinion angle and 15 psi in the slicks and I'll save the front end adjustments for the morning.

If you read this from Iowa, e-mail me your number again, I left it at work.

Good luck and in case you didn't know it you really are "da man"

SteveW

[This message has been edited by steve'66 (edited 07-12-2002).]

IP: Logged

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-13-2002 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve,

Just keep in mind the fact that you are trying to hook up a ton of torque.

Alex uses 30" tall tires, who's tall sidewalls will absorb the shock from the transbrake. You are dealing with extremely short sidewalls from your 26x10 tires... that will not absorb nearly as much of a shockload.

I have struggled with my car trying to get it to hook up. Getting a mustang to hook up with a stickshift and nitrous isn't easy. It takes a good setup AND a good track. Most places don't spend the money to prep a track during test and tune.... They aren't making as much money, plus there are too many radial tired cars who ruin the surface. Chances are, you'll need to go on race day to get a good surface.

You might have better luck launching without the transbrake. Alex's 9000 rpm 289 NEEDS to launch with a transbrake and a converter that will stall PAST your shift point to make his car work, but your torque monster 408 might have better luck getting traction by footbraking. You could do this, or start cutting the quarters out for taller tires....

I tried clamps and stiffer settings in an effort to make my car 60ft better, but just ended up going backwards. If a car is getting plenty of traction, stiffening up the rear end will make it more efficient. Less energy goes into making the rear suspension move, and more goes into making it go forward.... BUT if the car is making more torque than the tires can deal with, there's got to be some give somewhere. Pro drag racers who use stick shifts rely on clutches that slip a little before hooking up. Using a suspension that will move and absorb some of the shock will also help.

Ideally, you'd use a really soft set of leaf springs (which are often too flimsy to properly locate everything on launch), then ladder bars or something to precisely locate the axle and keep everything in place. It's going to be tough trying to use ONLY a set of leaf springs to properly spring the car AND keep everything correctly located during launch.

Get fancy with the rear suspension, get some bigger tires, try and kill a little torque on launch with an igniton retard in 1st gear, or find a stickier track to play on.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

IP: Logged

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-13-2002 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Remember, Alex is making far less torque, has FAR more sidewall to work with, and is using ladder bars and fancy shocks. Racetracks also prep the surface really well for professional type events... at least far better than you'll see on any test and tune. You are at a serious disadvantage, and need to consider some of the options in the above post.

I've managed a best 1.43 second 60ft launching on the bottle (this was with regular slapper bars and KYB gas shocks in the rear)... but it took a WELL prepared track. On test and tunes, it's usually in the high 1.5's to low 1.6's. The Ranchos (that I've been using lately) work best on their lowest setting, and fairly stiff springs are needed to keep the rear end properly located. The tires are 28x9 slicks. The car ran a best 60ft of 1.46 seconds with a set of Hoosier 26x10's.

My car weighs 3300lbs with driver, and has no ladder bars or anything fancy.

Try not to get the rear end too far in the air when the car is sitting still... That kills load transfer.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 07-13-2002).]

IP: Logged

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 07-14-2002 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the tips Mike!

The car did much better today with consistant 60s at 1.60. I still haven't gotten the front end loosened up, it needs new springs perches in the front they are rusted solid and not letting the front rise easily. The rear doesn't raise like it used to and the front goes higher than the rear now. It used to raise up the same front and rear "like an old Mopar" LOL
BTW Melissa added another 1st place trophy to her collection today.

IP: Logged

Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 582
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 07-14-2002 03:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:

BTW Melissa added another 1st place trophy to her collection today.


Way cool! Way to go Melissa! Glad to hear you guys are getting a handle on getting the car to hook.

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.231
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

IP: Logged

Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 780
From: Orlando
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-14-2002 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
It used to raise up the same front and rear "like an old Mopar" LOL

My 68 has alwasy lifted alot in the rear, off the line. Should this be corrected, if so, how?

IP: Logged

Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-14-2002 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:


BTW Melissa added another 1st place trophy to her collection today.

Way togo Melissa,thats cool that you let your your Dad help out.

SCOOP

------------------
65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Crager SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

IP: Logged

DidgeyTrucker
Gearhead

Posts: 1057
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
Registered: Oct 99

posted 07-14-2002 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DidgeyTrucker   Click Here to Email DidgeyTrucker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would change the snubber spacing:
The left snubber should have 3/4" to 1" gap and be as far forward as possible. The right snubber should have almost no gap and be 1-2" closer to the axle.
This will help load the right rear tire.
I ran "slapper" bars set up like this on my '69 428CJ Cyclone with street tires and the front end came up LEVEL.

Tracy

IP: Logged

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-14-2002 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Buster:
My 68 has alwasy lifted alot in the rear, off the line. Should this be corrected, if so, how?

This is the rear suspension 'giving' under the stress of launch. In a car that is traction limited, this can be a good thing. That 'give' helps keep the tires from spinning. A car that has an abundance of traction can 60ft faster by eliminating all that movement. A stiffer rear suspension can take that energy and re-direct it into making the car move forward.

This movement can be limited by using stiffer springs and shock settings. Clamping the springs will also stiffen the rear end up.

Personally, my car's tires deal with some pretty harsh shockloads, and the car needs all the 'absorbtion' it can get. My shocks are on a soft setting, and there are no spring clamps. I've tried that, and ended up going backwards.

Ideally, a person would use a 'drag race' suspension system in the rear that would allow plenty of tuning. Best results are usually had using ladder bars or a 4-Link to control and 'locate' the rearend. This allows really light springs to be used. With the light springs, a GOOD quality fully adjustable shock can be used to adjust for track conditions. Soft settings are used when traction is poor and the rear end needs to move in order to absorb energy, stiffer ones are used when there is plenty of 'bite' to direct the maximum amount of energy into making the car go forward.

One just has to keep the total amount of suspension travel available in mind. Leaf springs generally provide plenty, but 4-links and ladder bars don't move that much. Most coil over shocks used with these devices have a TOTAL range of motion between 5"-7". 7" is rare. Most are closer to 5". That means, the suspension can only move 2.5" up, and 2.5" down... IF the shock is centered in it's travel with the car sitting at the line.

If the suspension tries to move further than the shock will allow (it bottoms or tops out) the suspension will become unloaded and the tires will spin. The back of the car might even start to bounce.

Video taping each run from a good perspective, and STUDYING the suspension movements is paramount in dialing in the suspension.

I began accumulating the parts required to install a 4-link in the mustang. I've got pretty much everything, including the 4-link, teflon rod ends, frame, 7" travel shocks, etc... I just haven't had the heart to cut into the car yet. I might just keep the mustang as it is and cut up a Fox body coupe or something... Maybe an RX-7 or a small car like that. ???? Any ideas?

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

IP: Logged

67Coupster
Gearhead

Posts: 179
From: Fortson, GA, USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 07-14-2002 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67Coupster   Click Here to Email 67Coupster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:

Video taping each run from a good perspective, and STUDYING the suspension movements is paramount in dialing in the suspension.

Taping mine was the only way I could get it dialed in and I'm still working on it. I'm gonna see if a little ballast in the trunk can help me get in the 1.4's and I'll be happy for a street car.

Steve I was able to fit some 28 by 10.5's under my 67. It's a little tight but they do fit. That extra tire height would add a little more contact patch for you. Are you still running the 3.89 gears and the ET streets?

Later!!

------------------
James
67 Coupe
393W, 4 Speed,
7.07 @ 98MPH 1/8
1.52 60'
'66 Fairlane 500XL
Daily Driver

IP: Logged

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-14-2002 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve has a 66' like me. Your 67 has more room in the rear wheelwells. I had to take a sawzall to the rear quarter panel openings to make room for a lowly set of 28x9 slicks... The clearancing had to be done mainly on the front part of the quarter panel, but some along the top as well. After it was cut, a steel rod was bent around the new lip, and welded between the inner wheelwell and quarter panel. It looks almost factory.

67-68 mustangs are great to work with. They still aren't that heavy, and have more room in the engine compartment and rear wheel area.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

IP: Logged

Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 780
From: Orlando
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-15-2002 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
If the suspension tries to move further than the shock will allow (it bottoms or tops out) the suspension will become unloaded and the tires will spin. The back of the car might even start to bounce.

Video taping each run from a good perspective, and STUDYING the suspension movements is paramount in dialing in the suspension.



It's funny you said that. It would bounce before I changed the front shocks and rear springs. The front shocks wouldn't adjust properly, to stiff. It looked cool, but I am sure it was affecting the 60' times.

I can get away with as much as 28" tall tires. I will try some of those ideas and let you know.

I just got my new cam in and piston cutters from Isky. So, I have alot of work ahead engine wize first.

I might take it out before I make the cam change, just to see how the small cam worked.

btw, on a good track, I can get 1.43 short times, with the old engine. This engine should be making alot more power. What is the best 60' I can expect out of a 68 Stang with slapper bars?

351W 13.5:1 Victor Jr. heads & Intake
850 Holley
125 NOS
The new cam is;
278* both
696" in & 683" exhaust @ .050"
110 Lobe separation
C4, 5500 stall with a brake.

IP: Logged

Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 780
From: Orlando
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-15-2002 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
btw, with the old rear springs and front shocks and using 28" rear tires, the tires would hit the front of the rear fender. After the shock & rear spring change it stop hitting.

I also like the idea about adding ballast. I have been reading that alot of guys do this and it works for them......

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-15-2002 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Soooooo,.........I guess the tips worked huh Steve? A loose front end will help a bunch too.
Mike is right about a bad track and not being able to hook where there is no prep, but chassis set up is chassis set up. I have made two or three thousand Mustangs get down the track over the years and I think that I may have a handle on it now.
My Radials have a very stuff sidewall and we set the car up totaly different for them.
I only use them for heads up or record runs.
Our biased ply Pheonix tires are 29.5 tall and have a very soft sidewall. With a 7 inch converter we have a very soft hit and I can use a ton of flash. Right now we have all of our "B" parts in the car and it is an animal. I have to kill about 800 RPM of flash and run 1.5 lbs less air in the tires to get the car to hook with the 8 inch converter. I am at SS/MA WEIGHT NOW AND HAVE BEEN FOR THE LAST two WEEKS.
That's 210 lbs heavier than normal. After several passes I have the car going 1.44 sixty foots on the biased tires in bracket trim. The more wieght on the rear the stiffer the suspension needs to be, yet the tires need to be soft. If you can't get some spring perches with bronze busings in them Steve, let me know. Also, do not get Moroso springs.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

IP: Logged

Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 07-15-2002 01:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
...If you can't get some spring perches with bronze busings...let me know.

Alex, I know what they say about, "If ya gotta ask", but I've gotta -- how much do they cost?
Would they have a grease zert in them?

Ryan

------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
in a '69 FB w/ 306 now, but
the 460+ is coming... :D

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-15-2002 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes they do have a grease fitting in them. $120 a set.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Mustangsandmore Front Page

Copyright 2003, Steve LaRiviere. All Rights Reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

[Build a free Mustangsandmore.ws Home Page!]

[About M&M][Acronyms][Calendar][Chat][Classifieds] [Members' Pics] [M&M Mug Shots]

[ Mustangsandmore.com Bookstore] [Mustangsandmore.com T-Shirts][Tech Articles]