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Author Topic:   headers - shorties vs full length
65driver
Gearhead

Posts: 216
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 03-16-2002 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65driver   Click Here to Email 65driver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am starting on my head/cam (Edelbrock/ Comp 270H)swap on my 65. So far so good. I'm still trying to decide on headers, and after removing the hi-po cast iron exhaust manifolds, which were a pain to get off, I am still trying to figure out which headers to buy. I know everyone recommends Super Comps, but I am wondering how a set of shorties will be. They HAVE to be better then the hi-po exhaust I had, and seem to be an easier fit than full length. Its a mostly street, sometimes strip car. Any recommendations or opinions on shorties vs full length?

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-16-2002 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Generally shorties are used when clearance is an issue. Or ease of installation, which is still usually a clearance issue. Long tube headers as a general rule make morepower, but on a street car that will only see occasional strip use, shorties would be better than the cast iron manifolds (at least, I think they would be), but not as good as long tubes.

I wouldnt be afraid to use shorties on a street car.

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 21275
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-16-2002 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I used in my 65 with a 351w in it,Headmen shorties they fit every well and were more easy then the iron ones to get on and off.
The headmens have a great price,but the hookers are built better.
I only went with the shorties because at the time,I did know any one using the long tube with the 351w.
Next time I'll get the long tube super comps.

SCOOP

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65 coupe,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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AKBOSSMAN
Gearhead

Posts: 2960
From: WASILLA , AK USA M&M #743 MCA #40857
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-16-2002 09:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AKBOSSMAN   Click Here to Email AKBOSSMAN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had fill length on my 65 289 Ccode and had only a few times that i bottomed out plus you can see them

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WAYNE CURTIS

70 GRABBER GREEN BOSS 302

01 Sangria Red Focus ZX3
03 Boss 302 (5.0)
(waiting on order form)
92 SHELBY 4X4 (K-9 IDITAROD LEAD DOG)
My old '71Torino GT
"If your under control then your not going fast enough" Parnelli Jones

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wvcat
Gearhead

Posts: 299
From: New Cumberland,WV
Registered: May 2001

posted 03-16-2002 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wvcat   Click Here to Email wvcat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have had the comp headers on wvcat(70 cougar, 351w) for 8 years. I have never bottomed them out and didn't have much trouble installing them. With the fmx(original) fit was perfect, with the toploader(2nd trans) I had to do some "clearancing", At present with the AOD I had to "clearence" them a little where the flanges on the collecter meet. The flange wanted to hit on the trans pan flange on both sides. When they finnally go bad I will buy a set just like them only ceramic coated, great headers. Oh yeah one other thing, its hard to change plugs with dart sr heads because of the angle of the plug, its hard to get a socket on.I ground down a socket to fit, its real thin now.
John
wvcat

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Thanks
John
(wvcat)
http://www.geocities.com/wvxr7cougar/wvcat_01.html?989286238390

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iamblackjack
Gearhead

Posts: 219
From: A small town in South East Texas ............Houston.
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-16-2002 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for iamblackjack   Click Here to Email iamblackjack     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd like to see the responses to this question too. I've got full length Hookers and they drag every thing. I SHALL not keep them when I do my resto-mod (just started it). What I'd like to know is if there are 1 3/4" or bigger shorties. I plan to run 3" exhaust with 2 chamber flows.

BTW, my '65 has the Shelby spings which leaves the headers 2 3/4" off of the ground.

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4681
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-17-2002 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shorties are definately better than manifolds (even hipo's), long tubes are definately better than shorties. Shorties= low end, long tubes= top end. 270H is getting fairly aggressive... I'd personally want to let it breathe. I'm going to run a 270S in a 331 stroker, with Hooker SuperComps.

Hey blackjack- what size tires/wheels do you run on that '65? Is the rear lowered as well? Do you have the stud type motor mounts? 2 3/4" is scarry low

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-17-2002 12:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by V8 Thumper:
I'm going to run a 270S in a 331 stroker, with Hooker SuperComps.


Thumper,
A 282S would be a better choice! That stroker's gotta breath.

SteveW

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65driver
Gearhead

Posts: 216
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 03-17-2002 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65driver   Click Here to Email 65driver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the info. I lowered the front end by 1 inch, and I don't want clearence problems either. I think I may go with shorties; doesn't sound like I am going to lose to much power over full length.

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iamblackjack
Gearhead

Posts: 219
From: A small town in South East Texas ............Houston.
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-17-2002 04:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iamblackjack   Click Here to Email iamblackjack     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey blackjack- what size tires/wheels do you run on that '65? Is the rear lowered as well? Do you have the stud type motor mounts? 2 3/4" is scarry low [/B][/QUOTE]

15x6 with 195/60's on the front (Crager "Welds"?)
15x8 (4.5" offset)with 245/50s rear
The rear is only lower due to worn out springs. They have on arch. Stock, stud motor mounts.
When I tried to use a 25' tape measure to measure the ground clearance, and I couldn't slide the tape measure (3" wide) under the headers.

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4681
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-17-2002 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:

Thumper,
A 282S would be a better choice! That stroker's gotta breath.

SteveW



Yea, that's what I was thinking... Alex talked me into starting with the 270, being primarily a street car.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-18-2002 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SHorties suck! You can keep your HIPO manifolds for what you will see in the shorty headers for an early model. At the very least a set of 88300 Headmans are the way to go.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-18-2002 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yeah, the 270 will get a bunch better fuel economy than a 282.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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65driver
Gearhead

Posts: 216
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 03-18-2002 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65driver   Click Here to Email 65driver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I actually have a set of 88300s that a buddy of mine will give me. The flange looks pretty thin, and they look to be about 16 gauge. What size flange , and what gauge tub are on Hooker SuperComps?

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 6120
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 03-19-2002 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thicker tube = smaller inside diameter
I agree with Alex, shorties are not much good for power.You will cork up maybe 20hp on those ones, but they cost almost as much and the long tubes aren't hard to install.

As for big tube shorties, that makes as much sense as offering a tunnel ram with the 255's small oval port size. The bigger tubes benefits are lost in a shorty header.

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