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Author Topic:   Got the 5.0 apart...
I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-09-2002 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Head gasket is definitely blown under #7, blew right to the outside (missing a chunk). Doesnt look like any damage to the block or the head (havent checked them for straightness yet). Valves are in good shape as are the pistons and cylinder walls. I did notice the smog tube was full of oil buildup. Here is the interesting part. The head bolt to the left of #7 is broken in half! I took it out (didnt have a problem getting it to come out so no I didnt snap it) and I noticed it was a different color than the rest and all of a sudden it just ended. Half the threads are still in the block . If thats not bad enough, I got a sratch awl after getting the half that was still connected to the head out and some metal came out of the bolt hole, yup, threads. I can probably get the bolt out with an ez-out but can you rethread (helicoil or whatever) head bolt holes? I have pics just need to shower before putting them up.

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-09-2002 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Tim,

Yes you can helicoil it, but it's not a real easy deal in the car. I'd make some kind of jig/guide to make sure you drill and tap the hole square to the deck. Is it one of the lower holes that go into the water jacket? If so, I'd use some red loctite or "tight" made by Fel-Pro on the insert to lock it into the block and help it to seal....if you put it in dry and it goes into water then it will leak, seen it happen many times on Chevy motors. If it's a blind hole then dry will be fine.

One other thing, if you use loctite or "tight" on it make sure that you use a good, square spacer and torque the insert with a bolt and let it sit a few hours (I'd do it overnight) while it sets up. If you let it set up in a relaxed state and then torque it later, it will move the insert and you'll break the loctite defeating the whole purpose. After the insert is in and set, use whatever sealer you would normally on the bolt.

My 2-cents

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.069
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3653
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-09-2002 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim,

Glad to see you working on the 5.0!
Sounds like an easy fix, good job.

SteveW

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 03-09-2002 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by I65Stang:
I have pics just need to shower before putting them up.

(looks at watch)

Hell of a long shower there... you sure scrub well!

Anyways... if the threads came out in curly strands i'd rethread the hole, if it's small shavings and not much of them i wouldn't worry about it. Look down the hole with a light and determine it there are whole threads missing.

Breaking a bolt is kinda weird, i thought only Chevys did that.

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 230
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-09-2002 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It sounds bad Tim, maybe you should bail that broken old ragtop to me and use all the money saved for the new 650 inch 65 motor .

------------------
If a little's good and a lot's better then let's try using too much!

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 2024
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-09-2002 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim,
I agree with Tom, are you sure that the thread that came out is from the block or the bolt where it snapped. Sounds like it might be just the top thread. If that is it just run a tap in the hole to clean it up. If you still have more than 7/16" of thread engagement you will be ok, unless you are running 1/2 head bolts then you will need 1/2" of threads.

Mike

[This message has been edited by kcode (edited 03-09-2002).]

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-10-2002 03:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Butch, thanks! Hopefully all the threads arent screwed up...

Steve, between school, work, and the weather (dont have garage space to work on it inside) this was only the 2nd chance I have had to work on her since I found it was the head gasket (first time got the upper intake and all that stuff off, needed the fuel line tool). Now its raining again. Being busy sucks .

Tom, yeah, I had to go to dinner with my bro and sis-in-law as soon as I got out of the shower and then went out, will do the pics tomorrow. The top thread is missing but I havent got the rest of the bolt out so I dont know how bad it truely is.

Larry, umm, no .

Mike, I hope its just the top thread...

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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Capri
Gearhead

Posts: 1163
From: Lyons, ILL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-10-2002 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Capri   Click Here to Email Capri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Tim. Slow down a bit man!!!!!!!!! First things first. Use an easy out to get whats left of the broken bolt out. If you can. Then try to chase the threads with a tap. You might get lucky and straighten it out with no hassles. If Im right, the broken portion left will screw right out and you will have no more to do than clean the rest of the threads up. Remember, These bolts go right into the cooling system of the block so some of your shavings will end up in the coolant wether you like it or not. Sounds like someone had been playing in there and retorqued the heads and snap. Thats why you ended up with a popped head gasket.

Tony

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Fordwiser
Journeyman

Posts: 85
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 03-10-2002 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fordwiser   Click Here to Email Fordwiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Should get a whole new set of bolts when you go to put it back together, the others may be over streched from over tourqing.
Roger

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-10-2002 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tony, I hope it just comes right out (positive thinking, it will, it will, it will ). What gets me is the valve covers have never been off this thing (yes, you can tell ). We have all records since it was brand new. Im the 4th well 5th owner, first was the dealers wife, then the wife of a big marine shop here, then a retired Air Force guy who owned it for most of the time before my parents bought it March 2000 (I bought it from them in umm December 2000 or was it Jan 01, whatever). Oh well, at least I know what caused the gasket to go .

Roger, I fully plan on replacing all the bolts, with one gone I dont wanna chance it .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-10-2002 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pics as promised. First one is of the head gasket on the block, second is what I pulled out of the block and a two head bolts (guess which one is broken ), and third is the bolt hole (left of #7 cylinder).

http://home.attbi.com/~tcstang/hg1.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~tcstang/hg2.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~tcstang/hg3.jpg

edit: changed pics to links for faster loading

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

[This message has been edited by I65Stang (edited 03-23-2002).]

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-11-2002 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Uh oh, case of "while-I'm-at-its" . I am thinking of throwing a set of 1.6 or 1.7 rr's on this sucker. I really do not want to take it apart again and since its apart right now... Everything is stock but future plans include a vortech a-trim (just 5 psi to start), shorty headers and perhaps an intake too (yes, 4.10s too ). Should I bother with the rr's? If so, 1.6 or 1.7 knowing the plans for the Vortech? If I ever do a cam it will only be an e-cam (emissions).

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

[This message has been edited by I65Stang (edited 03-11-2002).]

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 03-11-2002 08:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
since it is apart now would be the time to change the cam... port the heads and anything else thats easy to do while accessible.

If you put in the larger cam you can leave the rocker ratio at 1.6. The 1.7's may make too much lift for the springs and pistons to handle.

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-11-2002 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well instead of studying for my midterm I decided to work on the 5.0 . Shopping list: right angle drill and some new drill bits. The bolt hole is of course the one across from the master cylinder so my drill wont work. Gotta get a right angle drill as I dont want to take the brakes apart .

Tom, I'm not gonna change the cam at this time, just was deciding if I should get the rr's or not (I know people use the 1.7 and e-cam all the time).

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3653
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-11-2002 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim,

Buy a left hand drill bit too! Sometimes they come out while you're drilling if you're drill the right (left) way.

SteveW

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-11-2002 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good idea Steve! It would save me from having to use the ez-out afterwards. While I was out there I was contimplating just pulling the whole damn block out of the car . Them right angle/close quarter drills sure arent cheap .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3653
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-11-2002 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim,

For a one time use you could get a right angle attachment from Harbor freight.

SteveW

edit, Or rent one.

[This message has been edited by steve'66 (edited 03-11-2002).]

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-11-2002 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah yes, another good idea Steve! I'll stop by Harbor Freight tomorrow or Wednesday .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-15-2002 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Progress report time. Got the hole drilled for the ezout but not before snapping two drill bits in the hole, so I get to go fishing for drill bits in the coolant passages . The 90^ drive isnt efficient enough to drive the ezout (head bolt torqued of course) so I need to pick up a 1/4 inch square socket and do it the old fashion way, by hand. Drill wont fit even with the short ezout.

Oh, someone stopped by and asked if she was for sale today too .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

[This message has been edited by I65Stang (edited 03-15-2002).]

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Capri
Gearhead

Posts: 1163
From: Lyons, ILL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-19-2002 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Capri   Click Here to Email Capri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Tim, Did you take the time to soak it with PB Blaster or WD 40? I didnt see it mentioned anywhere, Unless Im just blind. If you didnt, this should help.

Tony

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-22-2002 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Tony, it has continuously been soaked. Hopefully I will get another chance this weekend to try and get it out.

[This message has been edited by I65Stang (edited 03-22-2002).]

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Capri
Gearhead

Posts: 1163
From: Lyons, ILL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-23-2002 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Capri   Click Here to Email Capri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim,

Something else to remember, if you drill all the way through the bottom end of that broken bolt you will end up with floating shavings. The way to get some of these out at least is by using a wet/dry vac. One of the other tricks is to use a drill bit that is as large as you can without screwing up the threads what this will accomplish is taking away the most inner material and reducing the outer material strength. Theoretically this can make the rest of the bolt more shockable to break it loose.

Even if while drilling you get part of the bottom thread it should be ok once you chase it with a tap.

Tony

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-23-2002 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I gotta fish two drill bits out of the passages too so shavings arent a big deal . I'm gonna flush it real good before firing her up.

I got the 8pt 1/4" socket yesterday and well today I broke it . Yup, broke part of the side right off of it. I am not sure if the bolt was actually coming out or the ezout was still going in but regardless it was moving. Time to warrantee the socket at Sears.

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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Fastymz
Gearhead

Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-23-2002 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim it sounds like one those jobs that never ends.
It'll be all worth it once it's done.

SCOOP

------------------
65 coupe,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5087
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-23-2002 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Like I said before, by the time I get the 5.0 back on the road I wont have to worry about the heater core . Lol, nah, getting it done this week hopefully.

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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Capri
Gearhead

Posts: 1163
From: Lyons, ILL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-24-2002 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Capri   Click Here to Email Capri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow. Sometimes you just plain have bad luck. I think you should attempt to drill the bulk of the bolt out and see if you can get lucky. I would go about 3 sizes smaller than the 7/16 bolt and drill away. Maybe the rest will break loose then.

Tony

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