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  Help me "pump up the 351w"!!

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Author Topic:   Help me "pump up the 351w"!!
steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-25-2002 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK,

I need your advice. We want to pump the 351w up to its potential before resorting to a stroker. It's currently is a 10-1 bottom end balanced w/cast crank & rods, light weight forged pistons, Comp 282S cam, Edelrock's RPM heads and intake and a 750 Holley on top. It's consistently run 108-110 in the 1/4 for two years now. We'd like 5+ more mph out of this engine before moving on to a stroker. The car is a '66 at 3,060# track weight.

We have a vic jr. intake, a 850dp'r carb and an msd distributor ready. The tranny is a race c-4 w/rev valve body and a transbrake. It's about to dip into the 11/s now. So it's time for some more h.p. to keep it in the 11's even in the summer heat. The converter stalls at 4100 rpm now, so what do you think? What will it take? Natural aspiration of course, it's a bracket car.

SteveW

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-25-2002 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We'll be adding a cage this weekend, changing the seats out for f/g buckets, and adding M/T et drags front and rear too. Those mods should help it reach the mis 11s, but a few more h.p. would ice the deal. Any thoughts? Mill and Port the RPM heads or switch to what? Spin the engine to 6500+? With what cam? I'm pretty sure the bottom end can handle 6500+, although it's shifted at 6000 now. I'd like to stay with a solid flat tappet cam, no roller. But what do you think? Don't want to loose the bottom end with the current converter. Let's hear it

SteveW

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2831
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-25-2002 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To make MUCH more power, you'll need more head.

Really... to take advantage of the extra cubes from the upcoming stroker, a BIG set of heads will be needed. The current 351W is pretty close to being optimized. It might make a -little- more power with some changes, but to make significant gains, you'll need to swap a larger set of heads on there.

Personally, I'd probably leave the current engine pretty much alone, and save everything for the new stroker. If you want to experiment, install a slightly larger camshaft. You could probably get away with an extra 5-10 degrees @ 0.050" along with a 108 degree lobe seperation, and still have enough midrange to work with your 4100 rpm stall converter.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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chips67
Gearhead

Posts: 663
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 02-26-2002 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chips67   Click Here to Email chips67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well, have you tried all the little stuff? like 30w synthetic oil.....windage tray.....crank scraper....timing/jetting....electric fan....aluminum underdrive pulleys....taking out the stereo/cigarette lighter....ram air duct....over inflate the front tires.....wax the car....go to the restroom before each run and dont wear underwear 'cause its unneccessary weight. also pray. dont invite anybody you know to watch because your car always runs bad when your friends are watching. are you running straight headers/no breather? stub stack? im too tired to think of any more right now and no i dont do all of these....only the electric fan and no cigarette lighter. be sure you pray to the right God, and not any of those "bead-mummer" prayers either.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-26-2002 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Chip,

Yeah that's all standard operating procedure.

The car ran a 7.625 @ 90.35 mph last weekend with a 1.718 60' at the 1/8 mile mark. Remember how we were always comparibale with manual trannies? The only change was a c-4.

Now to find 40 more ponies.

SteveW

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 21275
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-26-2002 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve try the ram cold air set up it's cheap and easy,or scoop it.

Let me know how the glass seats work out.I tried them and they were to high for me to get in and out of the my car.


SCOOP

------------------
65 coupe,1969-351w,RPM intake,Carter625,shorty headers,2.5 exhaust, Flowmasters,C4,open 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede.
MEM#1240

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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I65Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 6575
From: Folsom, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-26-2002 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Steve, dont you still have that nitrous setup? Lol, ok, I'm no help .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-26-2002 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Loosen the lash .010 to .012 Steve for starters Steve. Put some C-11 fuel in it or Sunoco purple. Max out the timing at 35 (if it has flat tops)and fatten it up about 2 steps. Trade out the oil for Royal Purple #11 with one quart less than normal.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 633
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 02-26-2002 12:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Steve,

If you're not adverse to changing the heads, I'd put a set of Victor Jr heads on it....they're beautiful heads and flow as much or more out of the box as the ported RPM's would depending on how good the the port work was. You'd be way ahead of the game when you built the stroker and you could offset some of the cost by selling the RPM heads. I'd run them basically out of the box on the 351 and do some port work to them when you do the stroker deal.

I know some of these guys are going to say use this head or that head (AFR's, Canfield's, Brodix, TFS, etc) and I acknowledge that there are a ton of good heads out for the small Ford motor. I've used most of them on customer's engines and I like the Edelbrock stuff alot!

The Victor Jr is a "race" type head that will work with most, if not all, of your existing stuff. The chamber is the same size and the intake valve is 2.050 compared to 2.020 so chances are that will work without big problems. The exhaust port is raised .130 but I doubt that will cause you any trouble either and they'll use your existing rockers.

There are other "race" heads that cause a whole ton of headache (TFS "R", Edelbrock Victor) they'll make a ton of power but require different pistons (TFS "R") and shaft rockers (Victor) and trick headers (both) just for starters. If you were starting fresh building a race only combination I'd say use one of the tricker "race" heads, but in your current situation I think I'd go with the Jr's.

I think I'd leave the cam alone for the time being and re-cam it when you build the stroker. As always, this is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.069
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 02-28-2002 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The 282S is a wimpy street cam for such a nice setup as yours. Your holding it back!! Get all your mid-range power up there where you're pulling with a more aggressive grind. Look for something with 240-250 duration @.050 and .550-.600 lift. Then see what breaks first, the e.t or the axle.

BS

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-01-2002 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Blue,

But that cam wouldn't match the custom converter. It was made for the 408 stroker specs. I'm gonna go ahead and build the 408. It would have been fun to experiment with the 351w, but....

SteveW

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I65Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 6575
From: Folsom, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-01-2002 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
I'm gonna go ahead and build the 408. It would have been fun to experiment with the 351w, but....

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-01-2002 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought the converter was part of the 351 package. I still say the 282S is nothing more than a warmed over street cam if used on more than a 3000 stall. The whole idea of a solid cam is to take advantage of more lift and rpms.

Good luck with the 408!!

BS

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-01-2002 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BS,

No, when I ordered the race c-4 and converter I gave them the 408w's specs since that was the plan. The 351w does ok with it but it isn't the intended engine. I agree that the 282s is a "warm street cam" but when we built the 351w, it was a street car. It was one hellofa street car too.

SteveW

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