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Author
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Topic: Ram-air questions?
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Mike_R
Gearhead Posts: 178
From: Indianapolis, IN 46237
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 01-24-2002 08:32 AM
   
I have some questions about ram-air. How much difference does it make that the carb and or air cleaner is sealed to the hood and seperated from the rest of the engine compartment. If for example you had a hood scoop with a hole in the hood and had just the air cleaner (unsealed) is it still considered ram-air. I think I've heard NHRA has rule about ram-air adding X amount of horsepower, but is adding an open hood scoop considered ram-air, or does it become ram-air after it's been sealed to the hood.Also if anybody has any before/after results from adding ram-air, or any oppinions for that matter on how to best set one up, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks
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Just Strokin
Gearhead Posts: 754
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 01-24-2002 10:52 AM
The main item with relation to sealing the air cleaner to the hood is you eliminate the engine compartment heat from the incoming air. Cooler air means denser air and better for HP gains.
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-24-2002 11:14 AM
I don't think you'll get the full benefit from the Ram-Air induction unless the system is fully sealed. A well designed system can increase power by 10-25 HP, depending on the engine. Without proper sealing, you will get the benefit from cooler air but that's all. Here's a picture from www.ramairbox.com .
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-24-2002 03:39 PM
A well sealed system will net about 10 HP under normal conditions. IN cool air you can expect more. Back to back on my old CJ Torino Cobra it was worth about a tenth without the air cleaner.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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SundanceKid
Gearhead Posts: 1274
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 01-24-2002 03:56 PM
They say a sealed system is compairable to 6 psi at 120 mph. The problem with a sealed setup is you it can form a high pressure area "bubble" in front of the scoop and actualy hurt performance. The best setup would be to have a sealed box with a spring loaded trap door to let what the engine can't use escape.
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1341
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-24-2002 03:59 PM
Here is a benefit to not sealing the hole.
Before I installed my Boss 429 scoop on my '69 stang, it's 302 with tiny radiator wanted to overheat on 95+ deg days in stop and go traffic. When I installed the scoop, with no sealing it ran much cooler in traffic because the hot air was able to escape through the giant hole in the hood.
Now with the 372C and 428cj radiator, I need to seal it up since the engine never has temp related problems.
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65_289
Gearhead Posts: 761
From:
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-24-2002 05:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bluestreek:
I don't think you'll get the full benefit from the Ram-Air induction unless the system is fully sealed. A well designed system can increase power by 10-25 HP, depending on the engine. Without proper sealing, you will get the benefit from cooler air but that's all. Here's a picture from www.ramairbox.com .
I can't find that pic on their site. That is the kind of thing I was thinking about doing with my scoop. How would one go about making something like that?
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-24-2002 06:09 PM
Looks like you could cut you a baseplate out of something like a sheet of aluminun or even plexiglas about 16" in diamenter, and a hole in the middle to fit on the carb flange and just use a regular open breather on top to hold it down. The sealer ring shouldn't be hard to find. BS
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 2494
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-25-2002 08:21 AM
I took the air cleaner base from a '76 Lincoln Town Car, stripped off the snout and other stuff, attached a piece of foam (about 6" tall X 3" wide X however long it needed to be to wrap around it) to the outside of the base with construction adhesive, I made sure the foam extended above the base to allow contact with the hood. Because the foam wasn't fire-resistant, I covered the exposed foam with duct tape; in case of a backfire or such I didn't want it catching fire easily. It isn't very pretty, but it works for me!!  Ryan ------------------
The '3-Pedal Attitude' Kid
in a '69 FB w/ 306 now, but
the 460+ is coming... :D
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bfxcomet
Gearhead Posts: 691
From: Port Alberni, B.C. , Canada
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-25-2002 06:09 PM
How tall does a hood scoop need to be to acually fuction. I have 2 scoops , one is a remake of a Boss 429 and the other one is from a cougar. The 65 comet FX cars had a ram air set thats openings were at the front edge of the hood.
Roger------------------
65 comet project
Made in CANADA built for speed
#1145
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-25-2002 10:47 PM
Too tall will actually cause more harm than good. You want the air comming into the high pressure area where the ram effect will do some good. Those big assed Boss 429 oversized replicas act more like cow catchers than ram air on tall hood cars.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-25-2002 11:58 PM
Alex,Is the little "gt-350" hood's scoop big enough to seal to and feed 850 cfms or so?
SteveW
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-26-2002 01:15 AM
Yes Steve as long as there is at least one inch of clearance fron the top of the carb air horn. Good hood and scoop design for the early Mustang. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 21275
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-26-2002 02:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Too tall will actually cause more harm than good. You want the air comming into the high pressure area where the ram effect will do some good. Those big assed Boss 429 oversized replicas act more like cow catchers than ram air on tall hood cars.
Hey are you talking about me. Alex,I have yet to catch a cow.
But,I have had my share of bee's. I have read that the scoop should be around 2" above the hood level on older cars.Becuase the flat front grills tend to send the air more high over the hood.Then the more sleek front ends on the newwer cars.
I would be the 1st to say that if I was to get into racing all the time I would change my scoop asap. SCOOP. ------------------
65 coupe,351w,RPM intake,Carter625,shorty headers,2.5 exhaust, Flowmasters,C4,open 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede.
MEM#1240 https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 01-26-2002).]
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 6120
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 01-26-2002 05:45 PM
Roger, the 65 Comet Ram Air hood would be a better idea... the scoops are right at the front edge.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-26-2002 06:25 PM
I agree with Tomp on the Comet. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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bfxcomet
Gearhead Posts: 691
From: Port Alberni, B.C. , Canada
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-26-2002 07:36 PM
A new ram air hood from Crities isn't in my buget now but would be very cool, so I was thinking about run hose from my lower head light openings.
Roger------------------
65 comet project
Made in CANADA built for speed
#1145
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 21275
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-26-2002 08:05 PM
I would run the hose too.Like that idea the best.Then go for the comet hood.
But theres always those big as$ boss 429 scoop. SCOOP ------------------
65 coupe,351w,RPM intake,Carter625,shorty headers,2.5 exhaust, Flowmasters,C4,open 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede.
MEM#1240 https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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bfxcomet
Gearhead Posts: 691
From: Port Alberni, B.C. , Canada
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-27-2002 02:19 PM
I have a Boss 429 scoop but I'm not going to use it. I'll probally sell it.I have another lower profile scoop that looks better on my car I might use.
But if it's not going to work well with my style of front end I'll leave it of and run hoses from the headlight openings.
Roger------------------
65 comet project
Made in CANADA built for speed
#1145
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69_sportsroof
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Camino Calif (yeah, it does snow here)
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-27-2002 03:54 PM
wanna see something interesting ? tape several small (4-6" long)pieces of yarn or string at several locations about the hood,cowl and base of the windshield then run her down the freeway and watch where the air flows the leading edge works well but i don't like the looks but that cowl area is high pressure too. with the old 69 we went into the cowl area through the firewall and werw pleased with the results.I have always felt that any non underhood source is better than hot underhood air but there is a boundry layer near the hood. oh yeah im gonna put my bigass 29 scoop on the new one just cause it looks cool.be kind with your comments im old and grumpy---------Jay------------------
ALL THROTTLE NO BOTTLE !
69 sportsroof(351)
65 Ranchero(200)
72 Ln 700 (361)
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 45869
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-27-2002 04:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 69_sportsroof:
oh yeah im gonna put my bigass 29 scoop on the new one just cause it looks cool.be kind with your comments im old and grumpy---------Jay
We would never comment on your bigass. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
MCA Member # 47773
Of all the things I've lost, my mind is what I miss the most.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 21275
From: Reno Nv USA M&M#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-27-2002 05:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 69_sportsroof:
wanna see something interesting ? tape several small (4-6" long)pieces of yarn or string at several locations about the hood,cowl and base of the windshield then run her down the freeway and watch where the air flows the leading edge works well but i don't like the looks but that cowl area is high pressure too. with the old 69 we went into the cowl area through the firewall and werw pleased with the results.I have always felt that any non underhood source is better than hot underhood air but there is a boundry layer near the hood. oh yeah im gonna put my bigass 29 scoop on the new one just cause it looks cool.be kind with your comments im old and grumpy---------Jay
Big as* scoops rule.
I do know that ram air starts to work around 60-80mph.And you see the best gains above 80+.
But cold air even if it's not ram air,makes more power for any RPM,or MPH,then under hood warm air.So even if you just use the scoop for cold air it's a real plus.Just like keeping the fuel line away from heat ect.
SCOOP
------------------
65 coupe,351w,RPM intake,Carter625,shorty headers,2.5 exhaust, Flowmasters,C4,open 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede.
MEM#1240 https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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bfxcomet
Gearhead Posts: 691
From: Port Alberni, B.C. , Canada
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-27-2002 05:57 PM
I'm working on my car right now, tooked some pics with the different scoops on the hood I'll try to post them later.
Back to work.
Roger------------------
65 comet project
Made in CANADA built for speed
#1145
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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead Posts: 549
From: Frederick County, MD
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 01-27-2002 08:45 PM
Shelby found that the scoop on the '65 GT-350 worked better with the opening facing the windshield. He kept it facing front only for appearances. Chevy also found this high pressure area at the windshield and used this design on the '69 Z-28.
'67 Shelby hood scoops were too low and too far back on the hood to work optimally. I think that the lack of chin spoiler use at that time allowed air moving under the car to help syphon air through the scoop toward the carb.
'68 Shelbys had the scoops moved to the front edge of the hood much like the Comets. This was far more functional. They even did the ram air thing, sealing the air filter to the hood's underside on the '68 GT-500KR models. All '68 Shelbys and a few '67's (mostly big blocks, I think) used louvered vents running length wise on the rear outside edge of the hood to vent the heat of the exhaust manifolds. I think the '68 Shelby is one of the best designs.
Now if you want to be steathy, I have been considering something else that I will share. We know that the T-bolts used the headlight area for there ram air intake. That's because the front of the car is a high pressure area, otherwise the radiator wouldn't be there. I thought that if the battery was re-located to the trunk, running a duct from the snorkle to this area of the radiator support would be ideal. There are three oval slots in the radiator support to allow air in, and these could be opened larger if originality wasn't an issue. Thanks for letting me share my observations. Charlie [This message has been edited by MidLifCrisis (edited 01-27-2002).]
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bfxcomet
Gearhead Posts: 691
From: Port Alberni, B.C. , Canada
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-28-2002 12:10 AM
The picture I took didn't turn out very good.
Another idea is what if I changed my cowl
into a opening into my engine compartment?
These are ideas I'm bouncing around right now while I'm working to finish my trunk.
Roger------------------
65 comet project
Made in CANADA built for speed
#1145
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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead Posts: 549
From: Frederick County, MD
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 01-28-2002 05:28 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bfxcomet:
Another idea is what if I changed my cowl
into a opening into my engine compartment?That type of set up should work great. It's what they do for NASCAR and it is very stealthy. Good luck on whatever you decide. Charlie
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 45869
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-28-2002 05:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bfxcomet:
Another idea is what if I changed my cowl
into a opening into my engine compartment?
I've thought of that, too. the only reason I don't do it is because I didn't want to cut up my cowl. But it would work great, matched to a NASCAR style air cleaner. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
MCA Member # 47773
Of all the things I've lost, my mind is what I miss the most.
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bfxcomet
Gearhead Posts: 691
From: Port Alberni, B.C. , Canada
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-29-2002 12:35 AM
I thought about cutting in to my cowl to cleanup some surface rust. Also I plan to modify my firewall so I can move the engine back.Lots of ideas only limited by time and money.
I tried to post a pic of my different hood scoops but was unable to paste the pics.I must have something set wrong with my settings.
Roger------------------
65 comet project
Made in CANADA built for speed
#1145
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