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Author
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Topic: idle rpm and oil pressure questions
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chips67
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-21-2001 10:24 PM
   
what should the idle rpm be in park and also in gear for my mild 302/stock automatic? i know it sounds like a dumb question but im so used to dealing with stick cars that i like to idle like a harley at 600 rpms. also, and much more important, how much oil pressure should there be in drive gear at idle??? the oil pressure seems kinda low and i think it might be causing some valvetrain noise in gear at idle with the hydraulic lifters. the motor has about 100k on it, but i just put in a new oil pump with the cam/headers. ------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 485
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-21-2001 11:00 PM
Oil pressure depends on rpms.. Normal idle of 800-900 rpms is usually recommended when not in gear.. It should never drop below 600 rpms.. A stock oil pump on a tight engine will give 50-70 psi @ cold idle and HV/HP will run 80-100 psi @ cold idle.. Pressures will drop off 10-20 psi when hot.. Worn engines will be a lot lower according to the amount of wear and tear.. Most hydraulic lifters start to make noise when oil pressure drops below 15 psi.. Hope this helps, Dan
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chips67
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-21-2001 11:16 PM
yes it does help, i knew i heard those rockers clattering a bit after warmup when the oil pressure dropped. d@mn!! oil pump drive shaft probably took 100k off the life of this thing when it broke...jeesh! theres a hint of blue smoke now...used to never smoke. theres also a fluttering sound from the engine when driven hard under load and i dont think its the timing which is at 10 initial/38 total. will back timing off and check it again. it doesnt rod knock. this has been the worse nightmare.... well at least i found the vaccuum leak. ------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 485
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-21-2001 11:29 PM
Hope you didn't hurt it too bad..  It should make the engine work a little easier by running only 34 degrees total.. Put you some 50W synthetic in there and keep the idle above 600 and cross your fingers.. 
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chips67
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-21-2001 11:59 PM
you know blue, its my dads truck and theres no way i wouldve let this happen but i had to drop it off at his house (unfinished), so his friend could put exaust on it. well, he wants to put gas in it (good excuse) so he lets it warm up for the trip and doesnt notice the oil pressure guage till the temp went high fast. i really dont like doing work for other people for just the fact that they become involved. not that he broke the thing, just that i know it wouldnt have happened to me because i watch oil pressure like a freak, especially on a deal like thins one. hey blue, can i modify the inside of that duraspark distibutor to make it not add so much timing? i would like to run more initial and less total. it acts like its adding almost 30 degrees, ive never seen a factory style distributor add so much timing. ------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 10037
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-22-2001 12:15 AM
You can try flipping the weights, or tack weld them to lock the timing in at 35 or so degrees, but that may make the car/truck hard cranking.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 485
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-22-2001 04:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by chips67:
hey blue, can i modify the inside of that duraspark distibutor to make it not add so much timing?
I've never modified a Duraspark? If it's anything like the old points distributor, there should be a way to rig up a limiter in place of a spring.. Maybe someone else has an idea..
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 567
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 11-22-2001 08:19 AM
In totally stock for, the stock Ford distributer is notorious for adding WAY too much timing. As the revs climb, it just never seems to quit.Yes, you CAN get inside the distributer and make a little "stop" to limit the weight's travel, and experiment with different springs to tailor the advance curve... just make sure the distributer is not worn out before you start. You might want to get a rebuilt one to be safe. OR, you can just slap down around $160 for a MSD Billet distributer. Advance rate and maximum advance are EASILY adjustable with the distributer still in the car. The springs are on top, right under the rotor. Maximum advance is adjusted with little "donut" bushings held in place by a simple clip. I chose not to fight the duraspark... Another cool thing (if you already have an MSD box) is that it just plugs right it. No wiring required. It's a nice, tight, ball bearing equipped precision piece. I like it. Mine came with the stiffest advance rate springs installed, so you might want to make a note of that and install some softer ones. Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
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Greg Pettit
Journeyman Posts: 13
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-22-2001 10:48 AM
If you pull the sensor plate out of the dist, you'll see the mechanical advance setup. It gets easy from there.There are usually 2 advance slots on the rotor drive. They are numbered in distributor degrees, so just double this number and it will tell you how much mechanical advance you'll get out of each slot. Hope this helps, Greg
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Greg Pettit
Journeyman Posts: 13
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-22-2001 10:51 AM
As a follow up, the slots are different. Just pick which one gives you closest to what you want and use it. In my 429, it has a 13L and a 10L. This simply means that it will give either 26 or 20 degrees of mechanical advance, depending on which slot is used. Less mechanical means you can run more initial.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 10037
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-22-2001 11:26 AM
For the money I would agree with Mike. Dura Sparks really suck as do all stock FoMoCo distributors. With an MSD or Holley you not only get a tailorable advance curve, but a bearing shaft that will never freeze up. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
IP: Logged |
chips67
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-22-2001 10:40 PM
heres what i did today (yes, i tinker on holidays too.....im ate up) i took out the one of the light springs that i bought and meshed it with another light spring (which combined were still lighter than the heavy stock spring ford puts on one side). i fired it up and now the thing is only adding like 22 degrees...very strange. anyway, i put it at 13 initial, 35 total and it does seem to be coming in a little slower which i hope takes out that nasty pinging when you get on it. i knew it wasnt because i had too much initial...heck i had 10 degrees initial and it cranked very easily. also it didnt ping once it got up to speed so i knew it was just adding too much in too early. now the tach is still giving me fits. brand new autometer monster tach. sometimes i start the truck and it works fine but sometimes (like today) it wouldnt move at idle, and only came to life when i revved the motor past about 2000rpm....even then it was inaccurately low. i checked the connections 3 times, this aint my first rodeo with installing a monster tach, but this is the first time ive had this problem. any ideas?? on a final note, is the duraspark distributor really junk on a mild performance application? ive always thought it was comparable to the gm h.e.i unit. i love to learn new things from you guys, hope everyone got plenty to be thankful for this year. the little piece on the numbers stamped on the distributor weights was very informative, i did notice those when i had it apart but i didnt know what they meant. ------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 485
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-23-2001 10:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
For the money I would agree with Mike. Dura Sparks really suck as do all stock FoMoCo distributors. With an MSD or Holley you not only get a tailorable advance curve, but a bearing shaft that will never freeze up.
Damn MM, What are you doing to them distributors to freeze one up..? I like my FoMoCos and Durasparks. I woundn't have it any other way.. I know that points suck really bad and sometimes you might have to make a few "persosonal adjustments", but other than that, I've had very few problems with these Ford dist.. I'm a diehard stocker that hates to spend money!!
Dan Chips, Make sure you have the tach wired right. I had the same problem once and had it wired wrong. Make sure the green wire is hooked to the negative side of the coil and Be sure that the engine is grounded properly. I always put a heavy duty flat-wound strap from my firewall to a Bell housing bolt.  [This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 11-23-2001).]
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Greg Pettit
Journeyman Posts: 13
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-23-2001 10:50 AM
The Duraspark in my car has been going for 10 years, and the only problem I've had with it was when it threw off an advance weight. That was just strange, but not the Duraspark's fault.I bought the whole system out of a '78 ford van with a 460 in it. It throws a heck of a spark, and never misfires. I'm not saying that it's the absolute best system in the world, but what more could you want for a mild to moderate performance engine? I'm planning on using a Duraspark on my 11:1 466 as well. Just my 2cents... Greg
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 10037
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-23-2001 12:29 PM
I like most FoMoCo stuff guys, but over the years, and most Ford techs will back me up on this, I have seen hundreds of frozen stock bushing distributors. I like the Dura-Spark deal and have used them a bunch, but when you compare the free movement of an aftermarker bearing distributor and the infinate adjustability you sometimes have to spend a couple of bucks for the peace of mind and conveniance. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
IP: Logged |
capri man
Gearhead Posts: 945
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 11-23-2001 06:18 PM
hey bluestreak, you sure do draw good! hee hee------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.56 @88mph 1/8
1.56 60 ft.
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chips67
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-23-2001 10:24 PM
capriman, ive seen 87 mph in my 1/8 mile time slips and i dont even have my carb/ignition dialed in yet. i believe my car is capable of mid-7's too if i could ever get it to hook up. your et/mph is very encouraging to me, now im sure theres more to be had without any more cash thrown at the powerplant. just gotta get the chasis to cooperate. anybody ever double up on the light advance springs?? (read my last post) ------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 945
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 11-23-2001 10:57 PM
chips, what cam are you running? the 7.56 @88 is my best time back in cool weather. during the summer it ran 7.70s at 86-87mph. my 60ft is about 1.66 now. i have had problems hooking up also but am still working on it. good luckhttp://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/index.shtml
try this link, for your dist. curving tips.
------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.56 @88mph 1/8
1.56 60 ft. [This message has been edited by capri man (edited 11-23-2001).]
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chips67
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-23-2001 11:11 PM
im running the f-303 cam and i dont like it. ran better with the e303 i think. most of the time i get 86 mph range, but i hit 87 once on a first pass with the motor still hot from the drive to the track. hey, i know you fox chasis guys have different suspension, but im just curious what chasis pieces you are running? do you have adjustable rear shocks? does it spin at all when you launch? what rpm are you leaving at? i cant seem to do much but either blow the tires off or bog if i launch lower than 4200.------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 485
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-24-2001 01:56 AM
Chips,
The E303 builds more power from 2000 to 5000 than the F303.. It's much better suited for a stick shift.. The F303 is better suited for an automatic with a 2500-3000 stall.. We've tried them both. Another exellent 5.0 stickshift cam is the Compcams XE266HR. It's an awesome low-end street/strip cam for aftermarket heads, "IF" your valvetrain can stand the 555/565 lift. 
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chips67
Gearhead Posts: 431
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-24-2001 01:48 PM
blue, when i switched to the f-303 i could feel the difference....it wasnt pulling near as hard imo. going with a comp cam next year, maybe the xe266 or xe282 or just might call and get them to suggest a custom grind. i wonder if anyone has ever been impressed or dissapointed with a custom cam from comp. that comp recomended? ------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.
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