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Author
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Topic: Rear gears ?
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-13-2001 05:32 PM
   
Ok I'm going to try to get new gears and some kind of liminted slip.In the my 8" rear.I'm thinking of going with the Power trax loc right.i can get it in Sac,for about $210.I can get summit racing 3:80or 4:11 gears for $170.And a install kit from summit racing for about $200 which as all barings and seals.Is this something I can do myself or is it best left to a pro.The main area that worries me is the ring gears i've never did them before.The power trax says it can be installed by any one.because its a hole unit.I dont have enough money to have the local gear shop do the work.They want about $1380 to do it all with there parts.If bring them the parts they will do it for $1000 with no warrenty.If do it my self its $600.Please keep in mind the $600 is pushing it already for me.Please let me know what you all think.I'd love to have new gears and liminted slip next summer.
Thanks Ron------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 3653
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-13-2001 05:52 PM
Ron,That labor quote is very high! If you pull the center section and deliver it and the parts to a shop it is about a 2-3 hour job. It's not hard to do (once you've done one), but you'll need a couple special tools that you probably don't have and a good manual. If you want to try it, we can help you through it.  It's always better to have someone that's done a gear swap before look over your work before you re-install it. SteveW
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clevelandstyle
Gearhead Posts: 178
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-13-2001 07:13 PM
I say try it yourself, and as Steve said, get a book. You can do it! Once you learn how, you'll ask yourself why you didn't do it sooner.
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mustang68mustangs
Journeyman Posts: 71
From: pittsburgh,pa.usa
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-13-2001 09:21 PM
Hey Ron , please do yourself a favor and buy a set of Richmond gears . NOT Summit gears .I tried to save some cash and bought a set of Summit gears for my 9" and the pinion gear was machined wrong .It was oversized and the bearing was only able to be pressed half way down.Needless to say I sent them back and coughed up another 60 bucks and bought the Richmonds.
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 11-13-2001 09:52 PM
Ron Don't waste the money!! An 8" is NOT strong enough.. the lower gear ratio will make it easier to break. A Powertrax is also not much good... lotsa warranty returns on them. Best bet if you are on a real budget is to get an Explorer 8.8 rear end... these come with 3.73 or 4.10's and posi and 31 spline axles... same width as yours. A whole rear end for maybe $300 that only needs the spring perches relocated. Sure it looks newfangled and outta place...all the guys with Fuelie 5.0's and 17" rims on their old cars say that too.  A 9" built the same way will cost $1500-$2000 
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65_289
Gearhead Posts: 396
From:
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-13-2001 10:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TomP:
Ron Don't waste the money!! An 8" is NOT strong enough.. the lower gear ratio will make it easier to break. A Powertrax is also not much good... lotsa warranty returns on them. Best bet if you are on a real budget is to get an Explorer 8.8 rear end... these come with 3.73 or 4.10's and posi and 31 spline axles... same width as yours. A whole rear end for maybe $300 that only needs the spring perches relocated. Sure it looks newfangled and outta place...all the guys with Fuelie 5.0's and 17" rims on their old cars say that too. A 9" built the same way will cost $1500-$2000
So exactly how strong is it? Could it take 282rwtq with 4k clutch dumps?
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1965 Coupe, Tremec 3550, Steeda Tri-Ax, Cable Clutch conversion, 3.25 gears, Ford XB3 longblock, x303 heads, B-Cam, 9:1 comp., Tri-y headers, cut-outs, Ford Racing high-torque mini-starter, Pertronix Ignitor & Flamethrower coil, Accel 8.8mm wires, 650 double pumper, Edelbrock RPM intake, K&N air, Holley electric fuel pump & AFPR, dual 2-chamber Flowmasters, Summit 3-way fronts, Rancho 5-way rears, 5-leaf springs, Chrome Export Brace, Griffen Radiator, Comp. Eng. subs.
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-14-2001 12:04 AM
As far as the 8" gose I've both ways on it.That it will be just fine for a wild 351w and auto.I'm not going to run sliks just street tires.
I'll get the richmond instead of the summit thanks for the tip.
TomP.you've seen my car you know that being diferent is no big thing for me.I was once told that the 8.8 will not line up with the drive shaft on a 65-66 and will not fit the width or any thing else.If the explores are the same width as my 8" you have to relocate the spring perchs and how about the shocks do they bolt right up.Would you just get one out of the junk yard or from ford or where?I like the idea of posi,3.73-4.10 gears and 31 axles and $300 is great.
Steve whats a fare rate for install of liminted slip and gears if I pull the center section.Do you know of any one in SAC,thats has a good price.
Thanks guys bare with me on all the questions,its hard to things on a shoe string,it's fun just hard,I cant afford mistakes.But I have the need for speed.I'd love to have the gears,but they are no good without the liminted slip or locker,ect. Thanks again and please keep it coming I'm really going to it this winter. Ron
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65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 11-14-2001).]
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 21832
From: Saco, Maine USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-14-2001 06:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Steve whats a fare rate for install of liminted slip and gears if I pull the center section.
That's about an hour's work at what, $65/hr? Then count in a swap kit and bearings, maybe $200-300 total? {Not counting the ring and pinion}
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'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
My Photo Page
I only want two things from life: I want patience and I WANT IT NOW!!!
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 11-14-2001 08:46 PM
shocks would bolt to the spring plates... the housing is 3" diameter so the U-bolts need to be bigger (use Explorer ones) and slot the holes in your existing spring plates. The rear is actually a bit narrower, thats a good thing tho. The driveshaft has a flange on the back that bolts up... take this off a driveshaft and stick it on your rear U joint... may need an adapter U-Joint if you have the small 289 driveshaft, or just use the flange off a Ranger with smaller U-Joints... 80's Mustangs have a similar one but with a different smaller bolt pattern.I broke an 8" with a 200 six in my Falcon convertible... no hard launches, just an automatic and skinny 14" radials...broke the caps off the back. If your 351 is making any decent power at all the 8" will be a weak link.
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 11-14-2001 08:48 PM
Oh and... if you have less than 1200 hp an 8.8 can take it... below 600hp and the posi and stock 31 spline axles will be OK.
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-14-2001 09:52 PM
Thanks Steve,for the dollar amount.
SteveW,would you be in Reno by chance this winter. 
TomP.I could hardly sleep thinking about this 8.8 rear.i have never heard of any one that has done this have you.And I sorry but I still dont get the ujoints thing.Will my stock ujoints work or do you have to mode,something to make it work.And were should I get an explorer axle from a junk yard and Ford dealer or auto parts house???And what years rears work,and will the rear brakes work from the explorer, or do my brakes bolt on to the explorer axle.My brother inlaw told me the rear guy at the Chevy dealership he works at will do the rear gears and install the power trax or an auburn unit for $100.Over thge price of parts the use to work at a Ford dealer ship about 10 years ago.Thanks for the help please keep the info coming.
Ron------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 11-15-2001 06:35 PM
the 8.8 and 7.5 for that matter all use a round flange to attach the driveshaft... the part that goes over the cups of the U joints can be taken off the newer driveshaft and stuck on any older style driveshaft. You could use the Explorer brakes, the parking brake cables are a little different but will adapt. Some Explorers have rear discs... but you are better off staying simple and sticking with drums. Check wreckers or folks scrapping their trucks... these things are being smashed up with merry abandon with or without those Firestone tires... there should be lots to choose from, get one with the gear ratio you want... they all have tags that say (ie: 3L73 = 3.73 posi)
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-15-2001 07:24 PM
Ok thanks for the help TomP.If I go fort he explorer 8.8 what years do I look at.And how do tell the 8.8 from a 7.5.Or do all explorers only come with the 8.8.and are they all posi.
If not the 8.8. what is better the power trax or the auburn liminted slip unit.Or is there one better for around $350.
Thanks Again ------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 3653
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-15-2001 08:13 PM
Ron,The 8.8 is the better way to go! It also has lower parasitic loss than a 9", meaning more rwhp. I wish I knew TomP before I swapped a 9" into Melissa '66. SteveW
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 3653
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-15-2001 08:15 PM
Also,There are several reasonable junk yards around the Reno/Carson area, just look for the brothels. SteveW
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-15-2001 08:38 PM
Borthels what are those. Ron ------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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65_289
Gearhead Posts: 396
From:
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 11-15-2001 10:05 PM
So how wide is the Exploder rear end? Would it fit in a '65?
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-15-2001 11:37 PM
I hope it fits in a 65 because thats what I have.Ron ------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-15-2001 11:43 PM
Are the explorer rear axle 4 or 5 lugs.And how about the bolt pattern.Is it 4.5 like mine is now.
Thanks Ron------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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Dr. Who
Gearhead Posts: 164
From: Redwood City, Ca.
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 11-16-2001 12:00 AM
Yes the 8.8 will fit the 65, yes the bolt pattern is 5 on 4 1/2. And a brothel is a place where peter pan is a wash basin D).
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-16-2001 12:07 AM
Well Drwho you made sort work of that.How about what years explorers are the best if any,and are they all 8.8 or are some 7.5.
Ron
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65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-16-2001 02:04 AM
So guys dont think the 8" will hold up at all.I know you'll get sick of me soon enough.But it would be more easy to stick with the 8".But I'll look into the 8.8.
If I do the 8" do all the gears fit in all the cases or do you need a different case for lower gears.Like in some old GM axles.And what dose Alex think about this. Thanks for all your time Ron ------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 11-16-2001).]
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 11-16-2001 03:23 AM
all the gears fit in any 8" case... they all are weak too. All Exploders have 8.8's Rangers have either 7.5 or 8.8 ... the seriously newfangled disc brake 8.8's are wider so stick with the 96 and older types. 93-94 seem real common. Every one i've seen is a posi. An 8.8 can be easily narrowed... just use two right side axles , shorten the left tube a couple inches and it's Maverick width. You can also use 9" axles and housing ends to make other widths and get rid of the C clips.
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-16-2001 12:28 PM
TomP, at least you always say the same thing about the 8".
Why I get the 8.8 from a explorer should I get the hole rear including the brakes and you said the u-joint fitting to.
Many thanks for your time Tom.
Ron------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-17-2001 06:33 PM
Hey Alex what to you think about this.I have nothing but respect for SteveW,and TomP,just want your opinion too.Thanks Ron------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 3653
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-17-2001 07:04 PM
Ron,If you really want to go with the 8" I have a couple extra 3rd members here. If you want to ship the new gears and locker to me I'll install them in one of my carriers for you this winter. Then you'll get to keep your current 3rd member for "road trips". Alex has mentioned that he's made 8"ers survive with good quality bolts/studs etc. Your car isn't really hitting the rear that hard. EddieD runs a 8" at 13.0s in a heavier car, soooo E-mail me if you want. SteveW
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 11-17-2001 09:41 PM
It's just not wise to waste the money on an 8" in my opinion... once you bust it you have scrap metal. I know a guy that ran 11's with an 8" in a 65 Mustang. But he wasn't sinking $600 or more bux into it. The original 65 housing has weak scrawny axle tubes, that'll make 'em bend easily. The 8.8 will handle all the power you can throw at it,and right now are plentiful. I'd say to stick with a 9" except those parts are getting harder to find and pricier. You'd probably need $1000 or more to build it. It all comes down to what plans you have for the car...if it's a boulevard cruiser that's never gonna be accelerated with any zeal... you don't need that much strength. But you'd still be wasting dough to pump it into the 8" instead of something stronger. .
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 3433
From: Reno Nv MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-17-2001 09:48 PM
Thanks TomP.I'm going to the bone yard on next days off to whats there.I'll keep you posted.I'm sure if I go with the 8.8 I'll need your guys help.Tom I'm hearing you loud and clear, and I respect your opinion very much.I have never read or heard of any else doing the 8.8 and dont want to get into it to find out its going to cost alot more or be more work then I can handle.thanks again Ron------------------
65 Coupe with a 351w, RPM intake,carter625,shorty 1-5/8 headers,2.5 exhaust,Flowmasters,Black Magic electric fan,stock C4,peg leg 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Cragers SS,Black Suede finish. https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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