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Author
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Topic: Duraspark Conversion
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-10-2005 02:09 PM
 
Ok, I'm in the market for an new ignition system for my 65 with a 302 and have been reading all of the posts about the Duraspark system. I was considering the MSD system but they are so expensive. On the other hand, I'm not anxious to put something critical like an ignition system out of a junkyard car in mine. I haven't had much luck with using used parts from junkyards not to mention electrical parts.
So my big question is if I wanted to purchase these parts from my local autoparts store, what do I ask for ? Would the distributor and control box from a 78 V-8 Mustang work ? Does it come with the wiring ? Exactly what would I need for this conversion ?------------------
67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp [This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 06-10-2005).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-10-2005 02:29 PM
This is how I wired my dura spark system.http://www.mustangsteve.com/conversion.html The 78 system will work. Take the dist, and control box,all the wires from the box and the the dist. I took the junk yard dist and used it as the core towards a new reman-dist from Kragen $40.
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/009149.html
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 06-10-2005).]
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Dave_C
Gearhead Posts: 1123
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 06-10-2005 04:29 PM
I just put one in my brother's 66 with a warmed over 302. We hooked the Duraspark to an MSD 6AL and used an MSD coil.Bought the Duraspark from Autozone $40 + $9 for the cap adapter and $13 for a good cap. We asked for one for a 76 Mustang II w 302. We got lucky on this one. Sometimes the timign curve can be off depending on which car the dist was originally in. A big car would have a different curve than a light car. Sometimes you might get one where the proper initial timing would mean too much or too little timing at full advance. The one we lucked up with is set at 12? initial and advances to 38?. Here is a good page on how to recurve one and hpw to tell how much advance you have by reading the numbers on the internal parts. http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/Duraspark_distributor_recurve_instructions_index.html ------------------
557 BBF Powered, alcohol injected rear engine dragster. 4.90 @ 143 1/8 mile. 1.09 60'. I've got to be crazy to drive this thing.
SC/ET #2729
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-10-2005 06:34 PM
I'm just about sold on this combination because it's cheap and reliable and I like that.
Let's say I get to the junkyard and they have some late 70's V-8 Granada's. How can I tell for sure that the distributor is for a 302 and not a 351W ?
I'm assuming that late 70's Ford trucks will work also ?
Can I get everything I need new from Autozone, or do I need to at least get the wiring harnesses from the junkyard ?
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67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 06-10-2005 06:44 PM
Just make sure you pull it off a 302. {it will be easy with Granadas, they didn't get the 351W.You can get everything at the part store except the wiring harness. You'll need to pick that up at the boneyard or on ebay or in a want ad. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-10-2005 06:48 PM
Robert the advantage to getting the box and dist from the junk yard is cost $$$ about $40-50 for every thing.
I know you can get a control box and dist from NAPA auto parts and yes they will come with the wires.Except the wire plug that goes to box from the car. I think the control box is about $60 and a dist about $40-50. The Granada's didn't come with the 351w. Either way look for any late 70's 302 set up.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 06-10-2005).]
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-10-2005 06:59 PM
If I buy the control box at Autozone, will it be a Motorcraft brand or some off brand ? I remember my dad having problems with an aftermarket control box on his 78 Ford. He finally spent the extra money and put the Motorcraft brand on it and never had any more trouble out of it.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 06-10-2005 07:02 PM
It will most likely be an off brand. You need to get a Motorcraft unit from a dealer, assuming they still sell them.------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-10-2005 07:03 PM
Robert I'm sure it's an off brand. I know the one from NAPA is an off brand. I have a brand new never used box from NAPA.Steve, I can't type has fast as you.  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 06-10-2005).]
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-10-2005 07:07 PM
So what I'm hearing is go to a junkyard and get the dist/harness/control box and then use the dist as a core unit for a new remanufactured one and just keep the original control box ?
I'm sorry for all the questions but I want to get it right the first time around.
Thanks for all the replies so far !
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-10-2005 07:13 PM
I didn't use the dist from the yard because it was in bad shape. Other wise I would have used it. I wouldn't think the reman-dist would be better then a factory Ford unit. Just make sure you get all the wiring and plugs. There are wires going from the box to the eletrical system. Make sure you cut after the plug and as long as you can.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-10-2005 07:16 PM
This site is helpful and has a good picture of the plugs.http://members.cox.net/joetrojan/ ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 06-10-2005 07:35 PM
Here's a good page on it, too:http://www.mustangsteve.com/conversion.html ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-14-2005 05:31 PM
I just returned from the junkyard. Most of the late 70's stuff had already had the ignition systems scavenged. I did manage to pull a distributor/coil/harness from a 1980 LTD and an ignition module from a 1981 F-150. I made sure to get the module with the blue wire relief. I also grabbed an extra module from a 1978 F-150 for a backup.
After I got home and started cleaning everything up, I noticed that the plug on the distributor was cracked most of the way around. I didn't see this before because of all the grease and grime. Other than that the dist looks like it's in good shape. My question now is, should I swap this dist for a remanufactured one because of the cracked connector plug or just keep it and see how it runs ? I don't think it would be a problem but you never know. It looks like my old spark plug wires aren't going to work with the new male style dist cap. Is there an adaptor so that I don't have to buy new wires as these are less than a year old.------------------
67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 06-14-2005 06:03 PM
You can use your old cap and rotor and wires with the Duraspark distrubutor, they directly replace the wide cap and adapter.As for the distributor, I'd go by the appearance. Does it look like it was on an engine that ran recently? I'd probably be tempted to try it unless it looks like it sat for a decade or two. It's easy enough to change if you have to. I'd also check the endplay and test the vacuum diaphram. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip [This message has been edited by SteveLaRiviere (edited 06-14-2005).]
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-14-2005 06:32 PM
There's a small 'condensor' looking device wired into the battery side of the ignition coil I got. What is this and do I need it? I probably should have grabbed the coil bracket too because it had a place on it where this thing was attached but the whole bracket was a pretty ungainly looking thing that really would have cluttered up my engine compartment.
Any ideas on what this thing is ?
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 06-14-2005 06:45 PM
It's most likely a radio suppression device. You won't need it. You got the coil for the Duraspark, right? With the nail-style side terminals?------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip [This message has been edited by SteveLaRiviere (edited 06-14-2005).]
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-14-2005 06:59 PM
Radio suppression is the only thing that really came to my mind too. Yep, I got the coil with the nail head connectors and all of the wiring harnesses.
It'll probably be several days before I can get to this swap but I'm very anxious to see the improvements. This must be very popular judging from the amount of distributors and ignition modules that WEREN'T there.------------------
67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-16-2005 08:06 PM
Ok, one more question. I noticed that on the wiring harness the red and white wires get crossed when they go through the harness plug (red to white and white to red). Which color do I go by for the wiring diagram reference ? The color of the wire before it goes into the plug or after it comes out ? ------------------
67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-17-2005 02:11 AM
Follow this one,http://www.mustangsteve.com/conversion.html ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-17-2005 08:49 AM
Yes, that's the diagram that I'm using but that's not my question.
The problem is that there is a red and white wire coming out of the ignition module that go into a round wiring harness/plug (which also came off the donor car) where the red goes to white and the white goes to red. The red and white wires have been crossed over. So my question is do I go by the color of the wire as they came out of the ignition module or the color as they come out of this plug ?
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Steve68Cougar
Journeyman Posts: 49
From: McPherson, KS, USA
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 06-17-2005 06:39 PM
I did this conversion quite a while ago and there is some good information here. I went the REALLY cheap route to begin with. I used the original 289 distributor housing (it was still in good shape) and swapped out the internals with the internals of a duraspark-equipped 390. I was able to retain the original springs and such, so the timing curve was still the same. I swapped out the necessary parts and notched the distributor housing to get the wiring from the magnetic pickup through (the only new part I bought). The system worked well, but eventually I swapped out the duraspark box for a Crane HI-6 box. Now I just use the distributor as a magnetic trigger for the Crane box. It's worked flawlessly since I put it on. My next step is to get a 2-step rev limiter so I can control my launches a little bit better (or maybe I just need to get the suspension to work well enough to launch at 6k). I would consider skipping the duraspark ignition box and go with a reliable aftermarket box in conjunction with the duraspark's magnetic pickup.------------------
68Cougar - 289, 4-speed
98 Mustang Cobra convertible - stock - does everything better than the Cougar except bring a smile to my face.
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-17-2005 07:08 PM
Robert, mine didn't cross over,red went to red and white to white.
Now the wires were twisted around each other. So is there any way you didn't see the white was going to white and red to red?
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics [This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 06-17-2005).]
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-18-2005 11:22 AM
I've got everything hooked up. At first the car wanted to start but wouldn't. So I disconnected the white wire going to the "S" terminal on the solenoid. Now it starts right up and idles great. My question is, What's the problem with the white wire or do I have them crossed ? Would it even run if I had the wires crossed ? See previous post on this thread.
I'm not driving it or putting anything back together until I hear back from somone.[This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 06-18-2005).]
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-18-2005 12:50 PM
Well, I swapped the red and white wires and everything seems to be working correctly now. I think I going to email MustangSteve and let him know that he needs to note this on the wiring diagram. The red and white wires actually refers to the wires as they come out of the ignition module box and not as they come from the harness plug. I ended up connecting a red wire to the solenoid and the white to the ignition switch. I'm sure I'm not the first person to do this but hopefully, I'll be the last.
Thanks for everyones help on the conversion. I'm going to take it for drive in a little while and see if I can see a difference. It sure starts quicker than it did even with a warm engine starts are quicker. ------------------
67convertible 289/auto
65fastback 302/4sp [This message has been edited by Robert K (edited 06-18-2005).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-18-2005 02:41 PM
Robert, glad it worked out for you. 
On my system the white went to the white and red to red?------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs 65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc. My Pics
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Robert K
Gearhead Posts: 706
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 06-18-2005 03:48 PM
I'm not sure what's going on with the colors and the harness plug but every one I saw at the junkyard was the same way. red to white and the white going to red.
Anyway, I just got back from 1 1/2 hour drive and there is a difference. Not really dramatic but I do notice it. It seems more noticeable at slower speeds.
If anyone wants to do this swap, I'd say for the money it's worth it. I've got it set for 8 degrees BTDC right now but I think I'll bump it up to 10 and see what happens.
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zieber
Gearhead Posts: 172
From: Central Coast, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 04-07-2006 04:21 PM
I converted my '68 FE to Duraspark about ten years ago using a '70's truck shop manual and a lot of guessing. It seems I used the same strategies outlined in this thread. I jammed the red wire into the back of the ignition switch run/start terminal but it keeps falling out.Where do you guys like to splice in the red wire? Is there a plug away from the ignition switch? How far can you get from the switch before you get the ballast resistor? Thanks. ------------------
1968 Mustang 428,
not original, $1200
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-07-2006 04:23 PM
I just ran a new wire from the switch to the box.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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