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Author Topic:   Timing ???
Fastymz
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Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-05-2002 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I put in a module the petronix II,Since i installed I noticed that my timing at idle is still 14,and was at 36 at 2500rpm.But with the only change being the new module the idle is still 14 but at 2500rpm it's up to 40 degrees.Is that to much timing,it seems to be running good,but alittle harder to start then it was before I changed the module?
I have to crank it two or 3 times.To start it,it used to start with only one crank.

SCOOP

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2.634 60's
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65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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V8 Thumper
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From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-05-2002 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmmmm, I think the II mod has more electronic dwell, I don't know how that'd change your overall time however

It is possible that the new mod is clocked advanced in the dist housing, netting more time. Especially if hard starting, I'd bump it back down to 34*... the increased dwell allowing longer coil saturation shouldn't need much more time than that

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bibbs68
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Posts: 1113
From: Jackson, TN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 09-05-2002 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bibbs68   Click Here to Email bibbs68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are some individuals that have had this problem in our car club. They all have Chebby's though. I put one on my car and have no problems at all.

There was someone else having the same problem several months ago and he finally figured out that he hadn't installed a part that was needed for the module to work properly. Maybe you can do a search or someone will remember.

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Jeremy
'68 Coupe
M&M Member #685
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Help make the world a better place, drive a Ford and race a slot car!

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Fastymz
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Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-05-2002 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by V8 Thumper:
Hmmmmm, I think the II mod has more electronic dwell, I don't know how that'd change your overall time however

It is possible that the new mod is clocked advanced in the dist housing, netting more time. Especially if hard starting, I'd bump it back down to 34*... the increased dwell allowing longer coil saturation shouldn't need much more time than that


They say new mod as more control over dwell then the old did.They say it adds more dwell at higher rpm.I can tell you the car seems to run better.It really dose seem to pull better in 3500-5000+ rpm range.And as well below that.But the starting bothers me alittle.I set my idle timing down to 12 or 10 and see what happens.I didn't have much time to adjust it.

One more thing my old tach was off many rpm's.The new Auto meter tach reads right on.I set my last timing with the old tach.Would that have affected anything.

SCOOP
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2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 09-05-2002).]

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V8 Thumper
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Posts: 3529
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-05-2002 06:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Like we talked about, I think they're a great little unit. I've had nothing but good results with them

Just for kicks, do a plug read when you've got the time... I'm curious to know how they look before vs. after

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-05-2002 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by V8 Thumper:
Like we talked about, I think they're a great little unit. I've had nothing but good results with them

Just for kicks, do a plug read when you've got the time... I'm curious to know how they look before vs. after


One night this week I'll take the plugs out.Thats an easy job even for me.

SCOOP

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2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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V8 Thumper
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Posts: 3529
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-05-2002 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:

One more thing my old tach was off many rpm's.The new Auto meter tach reads right on.I set my last timing with the old tach.Would that have affected anything.


No, just that your tach was inaccurate. Total timimg is independent of everything but the distributor's mechanical and/or electronic ability to advance, on a pre-designed curve rate in relation to engine rpm. With your timing light hooked up, rev it up until the time dosen't go any higher... you're probably at or around 3000 rpm. 40* is too much IMO, it will ping under load. I don't outright ignore the initial time, but I'm much more concerned with overall time

[This message has been edited by V8 Thumper (edited 09-05-2002).]

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Fastymz
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Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-05-2002 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll get it back down to 34,but it has never pinged.

SCOOP

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2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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V8 Thumper
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Posts: 3529
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-05-2002 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You've got a bunch of miles on that motor, there's probably enough leak down as to not build full cylinder pressure or it most certainly would. Maybe it is safe to keep it that high... but it can't be helping your hard starting problem any. I'd still back it off a few degrees and see how it reacts

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-05-2002 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by V8 Thumper:
You've got a bunch of miles on that motor, there's probably enough leak down as to not build full cylinder pressure or it most certainly would. Maybe it is safe to keep it that high... but it can't be helping your hard starting problem any. I'd still back it off a few degrees and see how it reacts

Leak down the plugs the treads almost drip with oil.
I'll back off the timing asap,I agree with you on that one.

SCOOP

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2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-09-2002 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I set my timing at 900 rpm idle in park.Down to 12 it was at 15 wow.I starts right up now,and still seems to pull better at the top then it did before.That made my total go to 36 at 2500rpm.To get it to 34 I'll have to change the weights or springs?

SCOOP

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2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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Moneymaker
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Posts: 19751
From: Lyons, IL, USA
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posted 09-09-2002 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Weights or the position of the existing weights.

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Alex Denysenko
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Fastymz
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Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-09-2002 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How much will it help to get it to a total f 34 over 36 were's it's at now.

My car never pings no matter how high the timing is.Before I changed the module and added a full 12volts.It ran better with less timing and now seems to run better with more.

SCOOP

------------------

2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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V8 Thumper
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From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
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posted 09-09-2002 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know there's curve kits available for chebbie distributors (don't ask how I know ), I imagine Moroso or someone makes a spring/weight/bushing kit for Ford distributors too. Stiffer springs and/or lighter weights = later total advance, lighter springs and/or heavier weights = earlier total. You're saying it's all in by 2500 rpm?

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Fastymz
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Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-09-2002 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes 36 all in by 2500rpm.

SCOOP

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2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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V8 Thumper
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Posts: 3529
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-09-2002 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll let Alex or Steve (either Steve ) make the call on this one... I've got mine all in by 3600, but that's a different motor too

I'd think you could drag it out a little (maybe 500 rpm, totaled out at 3000) but I don't know that you'd pick up much concidering the miles on it. I personally would leave it alone and build that Holley you wrote about over in Racing

[This message has been edited by V8 Thumper (edited 09-09-2002).]

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Fastymz
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Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-10-2002 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I took 4 plugs out after running it hard.No not a clean shut off.They all have a yellow-tan color on the porcelain, on the 1st two treads had black soot on them.

SCOOP

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2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

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V8 Thumper
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Posts: 3529
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-10-2002 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Without seeing them, they sound good. I use a 10x loupe to really get up close, that way you can see spots or streaks that may be contaminants or evidence of detonation. Even the color pattern is easier to see magnified, much more detail. From how you describe them, I'd say your really close to optimum

I'd still try the Holley

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-10-2002 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr Todd the holley is sure thing.Still waiting to get it from the Big brown truck.
Todd i got as close to them as I could.If you want to come over and look,thats cool too.I'll even make you dinner.

SCOOP

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2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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SteveLaRiviere
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From: Saco, Maine
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posted 09-10-2002 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Mr Todd the holley is sure thing.Still waiting to get it from the Big brown truck.

Won't be long now, I just tracked the package and it's in Reno as of last night:


PACKAGE PROGRESS
Date Time Location Activity
Sep 9, 2002 4:09 P.M. RENO, NV, US IN TRANSIT TO
4:08 P.M. CACH, IL, US DEPARTURE SCAN
11:57 A.M. CACH, IL, US LOCATION SCAN
5:58 A.M. CACH, IL, US ARRIVAL SCAN
Sep 6, 2002 1:35 A.M. WORCESTER, MA, US DEPARTURE SCAN
Sep 5, 2002 11:18 P.M. WORCESTER, MA, US LOCATION SCAN
7:20 P.M. WELLS, ME, US ORIGIN SCAN
6:38 A.M. US BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

Tracking results provided by UPS: Sep 10, 2002 8:16 P.M. Eastern Time (USA)

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All Fords since 1977!

'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3529
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-10-2002 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
Still waiting to get it from the Big brown truck.


Those drivers always drive too damn fast, until they've got your stuff in the back

What's for dinner?

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SteveLaRiviere
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From: Saco, Maine
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posted 09-10-2002 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
If you want to come over and look,thats cool too.I'll even make you dinner.

Don't trust him, Todd! It's a trick!

Scoop is a cannibal!

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All Fords since 1977!

'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3529
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-10-2002 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Don't trust him, Todd! It's a trick!

Scoop is a cannibal!




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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 12015
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-10-2002 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Don't trust him, Todd! It's a trick!

Scoop is a cannibal!



No cannibals here,thats the Donner party your thinking of.

Steve thanks for the update,I cant wait to get the carb.


SCOOP

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2.634 60's
[email protected] 1/8 mile

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

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