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  Mustangsandmore Forum Archive
  '64 1/2 to '68 1/2 -- The Classic Mustang
  Pinion seal leaks.

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Author Topic:   Pinion seal leaks.
Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-27-2002 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz        Reply w/Quote
My pinion seal just started to leak.This is on the used 3rd member I just put in my car.It only leaks alittle maybe the size of a quarter in a week.
How do you change this seal,is it something I can do???


SCOOP

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65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-27-2002 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
Sure, Scoop! You can do anything!

You remove the driveshaft, put your emergency brakes on, loosen the BF nut on the yoke, then replace the seal. Hopefully the yoke isn't grooved where the seal rides, or you'll need a new one or else the new seal will leak too.

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My Wild Oats have turned to Shredded Wheat.

Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-27-2002 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz        Reply w/Quote
Steve 2 questions
1.dose it have to be replaced asap?
2.Dose removing the yoke affect the pinion to ring gear gap?

And one bonus questions,what kinda torque dose the yoke nut take to re-install.
Are there any other seals or gaskets to replace doing this job?

I think it's the yoke seal area,the fluid is on the Yoke end were the ujoints are.
It's not wet any were else.

SCOOP


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65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 07-27-2002).]

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-27-2002 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
1. No, it's more a messy nuisance than anything else. Just don't run out of gear lube.

2. Nope.

Bonus round. It's quite a bit, you'll need your Wheaties that day. Without getting my manual about 100-125 lbs/ft, I think.

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My Wild Oats have turned to Shredded Wheat.

Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-27-2002 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz        Reply w/Quote
Is the seal pressed in,or more like an O-ring and it just sits there.Any special tools needed?
100-150lbs that not to bad.

Steve thanks so much for the help.
I know you all get tired of all my questions.I just like to know what I'm for before I start a job.

SCOOP

------------------
65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 8198
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 07-27-2002 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow        Reply w/Quote
On my 66 GT it was 175 lbs.

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-27-2002 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
It's an easy seal to replace. You pry it off, then tap the new one on. You're supposed to have a 'seal installer' which is pipe shaped, but carefully tapping it in with a piece of wood works fine.

Technically, as for torqueing the pinion nut, you are supposed to replace the 'crush sleeve' which is a spacer that sits on the pinion shaft, and you use the nut to crush the sleeve until you get a set amount of drag turning the pinion, but that involves taking the whole pinion support off and doing it on the bench. Must people just change the seal and retorque the nut. I just wanted you to know this also.

125-150 lbs/ft sure seems like a lot when you're laying on your back...

Don't worry about the questions. That's what this clambake is all about.

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My Wild Oats have turned to Shredded Wheat.

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-27-2002 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mellowyellow:
On my 66 GT it was 175 lbs.

Yeah, that sounds more like it. I was just too lazy to go get my manuals.

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My Wild Oats have turned to Shredded Wheat.

Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-27-2002 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:

125-150 lbs sure seems like a lot when you're laying on your back...


That depends on what she looks like.

SCOOP

------------------
65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8"3.40 TracLoc,Cragar SS,Black Suede.

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html

Dave Witthoeft
Gearhead

Posts: 2613
From: IL.
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 07-29-2002 05:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Witthoeft        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
That depends on what she looks like.

SCOOP


It doesn't matter..

DidgeyTrucker
Gearhead

Posts: 1813
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
Registered: Oct 99

posted 07-31-2002 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DidgeyTrucker        Reply w/Quote
The important thing is DON'T TIGHTEN THE NUT TOO TIGHT!
There is a crush sleeve between the two bearings that helps set the pinion bearing preload. If you tighten the nut too tight, the sleeve gets crushed too much and the pinion won't turn and you have to replace the crush sleeve. (I just did that for a friend). To feel the resistance it takes to turn the pinion you really need to take the axles out.

* * * * * *

SO.....as you tighten the nut check the pinion for play. Stop tightening just after the play disappears and you'll be close.

Tracy

RonnieT
Gearhead

Posts: 912
From: Port Allen, La. 70767
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-31-2002 07:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RonnieT        Reply w/Quote
Before you loosen the nut, mark the nut and pinion using a scribe, then count the number of turns it takes to remove the nut. Install the nut the same number of turns and line the marks back up. Then you do not have to worry about changing the preload on the pinion bearings.

------------------
Ronnie
69 mach1 351W-4V
70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker"
Mustangs and More Member #23

[This message has been edited by RonnieT (edited 07-31-2002).]

skips69
Gearhead

Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 06-24-2004 07:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for skips69        Reply w/Quote
I just did a search for this same problem. My "new" 3rd member is doing the same thing. I sent the builder a yoke that was exact to what was in my 69' (9"), and he installed the yoke onto the 3rd member prior to sending me the new unit. It's been installed for about a month, and it leaves a quarter size drop of fluid every time I park it. It's coming from the same area - inside the yoke. I cannot find any torque settings for the pinion nut. Where are you guy's finding these torque readings? All I can find is the pre-load settings, and that is in inch lbs. I thought I remembered from a past install that the torque setting needed to be 175-200 ft. lbs, but I can't find that info. anywhere now. I can find it for a Dana 60 rear (200-240 ft. lbs), Dana 60 front axle and Dana 44 front axle (150-175 ft. lbs) for Ford trucks - but nothing on the Ford 9" rear. I got my old 3rd member out and checked it, and found it was requiring about 65 ft. lbs to turn it's pinion nut. I set the torque wrench to 75 ft. lbs, and barely got anything on the new one. So, it was about the same, and it still leaks. I'd like to crank it down, but don't want to go too far with it. So, any good literature to back up the high torque readings offered?

Thanks

whiteknight289
Gearhead

Posts: 1391
From: Wheaton, IL, USA
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 06-24-2004 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for whiteknight289        Reply w/Quote
Skip, you asked for literature, how's the Ford Shop Manual?

Section 15-10-04 of the '71 Car Shop Manual lists procedure for two types of rear ends, one with a 'collapsable spacer' (crush sleeve) and one with a solid spacer. Your 9" should have the crush sleeve. In a nutshell they say to remove the wheels and brake drums and take a inch-lb torque reading through several rotations to see what torque it takes to keep the axles turning. Upon re-assembly, tighten the pinion nut while rotating the pinion to seat the bearing, when you reach the original pre-load inch-lb torque reading you tighten another 8-14 in-lb. They say don't go any tighter or you will ruin the bearing.
The 'solid spacer' type pinion, which I believe would be an 8" rear end, they say to torque the pinoin nut to 180-200.

skips69
Gearhead

Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 06-24-2004 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for skips69        Reply w/Quote
Yeah, that's basically the same procedure that I have ran across, and I have the 69' shop manuals. I was looking for just a torque reading for the nut, thinking that there was one out there. When I saw the post, I got excited thinking I had found that info, but wanted to to see for sure that this required/called for so much torque to be applied to the nut before I screwd mine up. Scoop was the original author, and he has an 8" rear, so as you just touched on - he may have the basic torque reading in ft. lbs, whereas I have the "take the wheels and drums off, tighten the pinion nut slowly while checking drag/resistance with an inch lb torque wrench". When I first found the post, I thought I'd found the answer I was looking for (and wanting to find). Thanks for the reply White Knight, you saved me from cranking down on this nut and ruining stuff.

Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-24-2004 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz        Reply w/Quote
I replaced the 3rd member before I ever fixed the leak. The used unit I put in also leaks but not a lot. It has leaked for the past few years. I check the fluid lever once a week.

------------------
SCOOP

oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

65 coupe,351w,C4,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc.

My Pics

skips69
Gearhead

Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 06-25-2004 01:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for skips69        Reply w/Quote
I have bounced this off a couple other forums. Some people are quoting torque values for this nut (in the neighborhood of 150-175 ft. lbs). Most are still referring me to the method of taking the drag up, then proceeding to tighten an additional 10-15 inch lbs. Also, some folks are telling me the vent hose could be plugged (I checked, it's not). I did finally find my paperwork that came with the new rear and have contacted the builder. He told me to definately not torque the nut down any further, as it will throw off the gear lash. So, that's what I was afraid of. I guess I'll buy a new seal and crush sleeve and just set it by what the manual is calling for.

skips69
Gearhead

Posts: 346
From: Catlin, IL USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 06-25-2004 08:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for skips69        Reply w/Quote
Ahhh, now I have found the info. I was looking for (and that some have providedas well). In my 1969 Ford car shop manual, it does call for the nut to be torqued to 175 ft. lbs (while holding the flange steady with another large wrench). Then to check pre-load, and increase the nut torque as needed to obtain the necessary pre-load requirements. Don't know how I was missing it before. I'll start torquing the nut this afternoon (get the jack and stands out yet again). I'll start out lower than 175 and work my way up as I keep an eye on the pre-load specs.

Thanks to all that replied, I remember the 175 ft' lbs from past swaps, but could not find the information in black and white as I was needing it this time. Just didn't want to make matters worse. See ya', gotta go eat some wheaties........

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