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Author
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Topic: Looking for engine ideas....
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289 Rod
Journeyman Posts: 63
From: Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 12-29-2001 04:59 AM
   
for my car, a 65 mustang currently running well with a set of 165CC AFR heads and 58cc combustion cambers. I am looking to make a good sum of horsepower yet still be a daily driver. So not too high on the compression. I need some convincing o what engine size I should use, 289 cid, 302 cid, 347 cid (what works best with my cylinder heads? I want to use a new engine block, the history of my engine now is unknow because of its previous owners. I am unsure...what would be the best engine. By the way...I would rather it be naturally aspired, and with a carb, I hate the look of the EFI.*Is this a project that I should do or better as a novice to have a shop do the engine build? *If not any reccommendations on a engine shop? Hopefully in So. Cal.
*What would make it stand out? Steel Forged crank? High Lift rocker arms? Roller Lifters Mec/Hyd? Port/polished intake and heads? Blue printed and balanced? Bigger Valves? ( what I have now is :Intake Valve, 1.900" Exhaust Valve, 1.600")
Basically I am looking for a well built daily driver with a strong motor. That will put up a strong fight against a new Corvette or any other guy thinking he is faster. Is 400 hp a good goal or too high, and should lower it to a goal of say 350 hp? If you are still reading this thanks in advance.
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'65 Mustang Black/Black Pony Interior
289 4V 4 speed Manual
Weiand Dual Plane,AFR 165cc, Comp Cam Pro Magnum Rocker Arms, 3.55 Rearend, 2.5 inch exhaust with headers and loud!
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Jeff
Journeyman Posts: 91
From: Moore, OK USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 12-29-2001 08:02 AM
Since you want good streetable manners and for it to run on pump gas, and you want performance this means you want cubic inches. I would sell your current engine to fund the new one. Shouldn't be too hard since you can demonstrate how well it works in your car (don't pull engine until its sold) Perhaps a crate 351 (or stroker 351) from Ford Racing is your best bet.
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 14326
From: Hampton,Virginia,USA 1968 Fastback & 1995 Vert MCA#39406 M&M #12
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-29-2001 09:17 AM
I have a 289 very streetable at 9.5 to 1 and plenty of HP...300+ need more?
http://spsmith.mustangsandmore.ws
sam[This message has been edited by mustangs68 (edited 12-29-2001).]
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 1460
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-29-2001 11:53 AM
Your current combo sounds fairly potent, especially with that four speed and 3.55 gears in a car as light as a '65, but I know exactly how you feel. Jeff is right- cubic inches makes torque, and that's what mashes you back into the seat. 351W's will squeeze into a '65, but it is tight. You'd also need to compromise on headers, being as wide as that motor is. 347's pound- I'm gonna build one (for my '65) once the income tax check shows up. 289/302's are high winders, and AFR heads will move plenty of atmosphere.  You could keep running what you've got now, install some 3.89:1 gears and I bet you'd like it. Maybe some more cam? Whatcha runnin' now? Strokers (347) are probably best left to the pros- the tolerances and clearances are CRITICAL. Probe Industries/Coast High Performance is my choice once the time comes(NOT SOON ENOUGH), and they're right here in SoCal. Check out 347StreetFighter.com, you'll drool yourself soggy You could save yourself some $$$, buy a shortblock and assemble the top end yourself. Don't be intimidated- get some books and read, study and understand the basics. Ask a whole lot of questions. Give your motor builder all the info you can, he will fill your head with all kinds of good stuff. That's what you pay him for
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289 Rod
Journeyman Posts: 63
From: Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 12-29-2001 12:34 PM
Sorry, I don't want to use a 351, it is way to big of a project because of size problems. I rather use a 302 then stroke it instead. I have heard of different size strokers from 306 to 347 on Coast High Performance. If I get a 302 engine block...what is the major differance with a short block and long block, are there bigger coolant passages, thicker cylinder walls? ------------------
'65 Mustang Black/Black Pony Interior
289 4V 4 speed Manual
Weiand Dual Plane,AFR 165cc, Comp Cam Pro Magnum Rocker Arms, 3.55 Rearend, 2.5 inch exhaust with headers and loud!
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 1460
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-29-2001 01:02 PM
'Short block' is basically half a motor. The assembled package includes a bored block, new pistons, rings, rods, cam bearings(but no cam or lifters), usually an oil pump but probably no oil pan.
'Long block' is all of the above with heads, rockers, pushrods, oilpan, but usually no carb or intake unless you pay extra.
Since you've allready got some real good heads, you could either have the builder install your heads/valvetrain on a short block, or just buy a short and do it yourself.
Later model 302 blocks don't have the clutch pivot boss on the bellhousing necessary to run your early style linkage, adapters are available but couldn't tell where to look.
Aside from 'exotic' racing blocks, not much differences between any of the 260/289/302 castings as far as the clinders go, probably some difs in water/oil returns, would mean running the approprate head gasket.
You can make some killer power with roller camshafts, but expect to spend $500+ for the kit; makes a flat hydro sound not so bad after all, especially for a street motor.
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Fastymz
Gearhead Posts: 5145
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-29-2001 02:08 PM
I think if you went with the 347 with good intake carb and cam.You should hit 350-400hp at fly wheel.The hp is not your biggest problem for beating the vets.Traction is the big one you need to over come.I like the 3:8 gears like V8 Thumper said.I think you are better off building the motor to hit more top end power,so you can leave the line better.You can always add a 75-100hp spray.SCOOP. ------------------
65 coupe,351w,RPM intake,Carter625,shorty headers,2.5 exhaust, Flowmasters,C4,open 8" 2:80,Big Boss 429 hood scoop,Crager SS,Black Suede.
MEM#1240 https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Fastymz.html
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289 Rod
Journeyman Posts: 63
From: Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 12-29-2001 02:58 PM
With a 3.8 rear gear, is that a good street gear for daily driving? I want to have the car setup like a Tran Am/Track Car, not like a drag car. That is why I rather not put a 351 cid engine in. By the way I am looking to put a 5 or 6 speed in the car as well after the engine. Should I not change the rear gear until after I change the tranny?------------------
'65 Mustang Black/Black Pony Interior
289 4V 4 speed Manual
Weiand Dual Plane,AFR 165cc, Comp Cam Pro Magnum Rocker Arms, 3.55 Rearend, 2.5 inch exhaust with headers and loud!
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 1460
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-29-2001 03:15 PM
3.73 would probably be a better street ratio, at the expense of some acceleration. If you're intending an overdrive, I'd leave the rear alone until you decide on a trans ratio, because the 1st gears in those tend to be pretty short... then you're back to the traction problem like Scoop said. Big torque + short ring/pinion ratio + short 1st/2nd gears = lit up tires. Looks impressive, but dosen't beat any 'Vettes. Gets you in alot of trouble, too Bottom line- anything you do, it'll NEVER be enough. But hey, isn't that the torch we all carry?
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The Iceman
Gearhead Posts: 1862
From: Shelton, CT
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 12-29-2001 04:29 PM
But guys thats why Mickey Thomson makes E/T Streets  he he heeeee------------------
Dan~
1965 Coupe "BeeBop" 200ci Straight "6"~2.77 3-spd w/Hurst Shifter~Pertronix Elec. Ign.~Flamethrower Coil~Flex-Fan~Clifford 6-2 Header~26" Smithys~3" chrome tips~'85 T-Bird TC buckets~'66 guages
https://mustangsandmore.com//ubb/TheIceman.html
http://www.motorcities.com/contents/01GF9250033520.html
Nothing Beats A Little Six In A Classic Mustang! ;)
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289 Rod
Journeyman Posts: 63
From: Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 03-25-2002 02:03 PM
Yes! I found out that my college has an engine building class which I am probably going to take, I heard of some insane engines coming out of this place. They don't just do rebuilds, I will probably check with the instructor on a good build sheet for what I am looking to acheive.------------------
'65 Mustang Black/Black Pony Interior
289 4V 4 speed Manual
Weiand Dual Plane,AFR 165cc, Comp Cam Pro Magnum Rocker Arms, 3.55 Rearend, 2.5 inch exhaust with headers and loud!
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mvierow
Gearhead Posts: 149
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-25-2002 05:11 PM
Sounds a lot like what I originally wanted in my '65. Ofcouse that was 3 years ago, but I AM getting close! Here's my combo at the moment- 289 30 over
- AFR 165cc runner, high compression chamber (I think that is the 58cc, same as yours)
- AFR seats, springs, guides, valves and retainers that came with the heads
- Comp 270H hyd flat tap. cam, though I'm thinking of giving the 280R a try. AFR support says its an OK swap with the springs that came on that head FYI. (Springs support upto .550" lift)
- Crane gold series 1.6-1 roller tip rockers.
- Performer RPM air gap port matched to the AFRs.
- Holley 650cfm 4150 double pumper on top of a 1/2" 4 hole phenolic spacer. A 600 vacuum secondary model would probably be the better street choice, but I have a daily driver and wanted a little more strip tunability.
- high flow water and oil pumps w/ deep sump oil pan.
.. and thats about it for the motor. It's best run before the heads were added was a flat 14 seconds at a few hundreds of a mph short of 100mph. I'm running a warmed up c-4, 2400 stall, and 3.70's in a 9" rear. Since my last run I've added the heads, port matched the intake, and removed the fan which I'm thinking should get me to the mid 13's or maybe lower if I'm lucky. I'm hoping that should be enough to keep SS's and Cobra's a 1/2 car length off my pace (I like to keep thinks interesting). If you decide to go with more displacement, such as in a stroker short block or buildup kit, don't forget to match up your other parts accordingly otherwise you may be looking at only marginal gains. My recommendation I guess would be to try a different cam and toss the fan blade for an electric fan and you could see 30 more horses for 250 bucks.
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