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Author Topic:   synthetic oil---any users?
71RESTO
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Posts: 1450
From: Oregon, USA
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-11-2001 08:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 71RESTO   Click Here to Email 71RESTO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have used the 10w-40 viscosity petroleum based oil my whole life, however a guy I work with absolutely swears by the synthetics. Due to the fact my pick-up has developed a rod knock due to bad lower end lubrication I am thinking of switching over on all my vehicles. I have never used the synthetics before and from what he says, they flow easier, therefore making the lubrication problems less of an isue. Also, my mustangs sit for up to 2 months at a time without being driven, so I'm thinking I may be better off with the synthetic.
Any thoughts pro or con are appreciated.

------------------
Duane
71 Fastback (under resto)
73 Mach 1
M&M Member #730

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SteveLaRiviere
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From: Saco, Maine
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posted 05-11-2001 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is a better lubricant. I'm about to make the switch myself. I've hesitated because I've heard that the downside is that they are more prone to leaking.

------------------
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC {Wife's car...}
All Fords since 1977

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GTRocks
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From: Lusby, MD
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posted 05-11-2001 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GTRocks   Click Here to Email GTRocks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read an opinion on this here one time that I have never forgotten: No matter how good the oil that you use is, the impurities are still captured by the filter, and it will need changing.

I change mine every 3k, so unless you want to pay for synthetic every 3k, I think the benefits of synthetic are minimal due to the filter's limitations.

My $.02

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Clark
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From: Rowlett,Texas
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posted 05-11-2001 10:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clark   Click Here to Email Clark     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Duane,
This is always a good question and usually will get quite a few different opinions so here goes mine.

There is no doubt that the synthetics are better, a primary reason is because the way it handles heat. Petroleum based oils burn and cause the oil to get that nice dark look. This causes oil coking which is an abrasive and tends to stick to your engine causing the familiar sludge.

Bottom line is you can use regular oils and change every 3k which will work fine, but I run synthetics in everything I own, including my lawn mowers and have never had an oil related problem yet. And if I want to run to 5k on my oil there's no concern of the oil being able to handle it, right along with my motorcraft oil filter which will last longer if the oil stays cleaner.

------------------
69 351W Sportsroof Deluxe

[This message has been edited by Clark (edited 05-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Clark (edited 05-11-2001).]

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steve'66
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From: Sonoma,CA,USA
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posted 05-11-2001 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just tried Mobil 1 in the 351w last oil change. Wanted to wait for the engine to break-in, it should be good for a couple extra hp. No leaks so far.

SteveW

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KenB
Journeyman

Posts: 44
From: Regina, Sk, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-11-2001 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KenB   Click Here to Email KenB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I run Castrol Syntec 0-50 in my three vehicles: 95 Cougar, 69 Cougar with 351C and Dodge Power Wagon with 440. I noticed that the 351C turned over easier when shut off for about 10 minutes - thus I'd say its better than the 15-40 I was using. I run longer between changes with the synthetic thus cost for oil changes is the same (more money but longer intervals). For me I really like the 0-50 since I can run it all year round, makes a big difference during winter starting. Never noticed any issues such as oil leaks etc but then the synthetic oil I am using is actually thicker than the conventional oil I used due to the 50 weight factor.

I now only use regular oils for break-in, synthetic after that.

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SteveLaRiviere
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From: Saco, Maine
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posted 05-11-2001 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GTRocks:
I read an opinion on this here one time that I have never forgotten: No matter how good the oil that you use is, the impurities are still captured by the filter, and it will need changing.

I change mine every 3k, so unless you want to pay for synthetic every 3k, I think the benefits of synthetic are minimal due to the filter's limitations.

My $.02


That was another thing that bothered me; if you leave the oil in for extended periods, you are building up lots of grit and acids. {a byproduct of combustion}

If I switch to synthetic, I will still change the oil at the same intervals.

Just yesterday, I got the part number to a silicone sealer that supposedly holds up to synthetic oils. An engine builder in my area that builds lots of stock car engines had a real hard time getting his motors to seal until a GM engineer told him to use GE RTV100 sealer. He claims this stuff stopped the leaking problem 100% Unfortunately, he says this stuff is hard to come by and you have to buy it by the case in caulking tubes. I'm going to see if that's true.

------------------
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC {Wife's car...}
All Fords since 1977

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kid vishus
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Posts: 6617
From: middle of NC
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posted 05-11-2001 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I run synthetics in vehicles. Leaks are not a problem even in the race motor using 5W-20 if the motor is sealed properly using normal red and orange Permatex. I change the Mobil 1 synthetic in my wife's T-bird every 5 miles. I would go a little longer but it sees a lot of town driving. The same goes for my Lightning.
The bearings in my race motor look better now using the synthetic Royal Purple than they ever looked using conventional oil, and I have not had a bearing failure since I switched to synthetic. I will not use a petroluem based oil in a race motor ever again.

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Ryan Wilke
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From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
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posted 05-11-2001 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK - I'll throw in my 2 cents.....
I think for an engine that may set for a week at a time, the synthetics are worth there extra cost. The 'cling' of most synthetics is way better than a petro lube. So rather than rollover an engine (or trans or rearend) that has dripped & drained for a week or more and doesn't even have a visiable lube film on the parts any longer, personally, I'm more comfortable using a synthetic in them. Same goes for the vehicles that see extreme conditions (racing or pulling heavy loads), due to synthetics ability to handle more extreme conditions than petro lubes.

Now; daily drivers don't set long enough to drain off the oil film and are high-milers, so I use petro lubes in my commuter.
Just for what it's worth.... Ryan

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65coupei6
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From: S.F., CA
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posted 05-11-2001 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65coupei6   Click Here to Email 65coupei6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am glad this topic came up. I am about to change to syth. oil. Can you just drain your oil and switch or should you add syth. oil slowly during oil changes. Also what is the best weight to use. I am using 10-30 regular oil now. So should I use 10-30 syth. oil also?

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richard bohm
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Posts: 373
From: tucson,az-luray,va
Registered: May 2001

posted 05-12-2001 03:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for richard bohm   Click Here to Email richard bohm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
when switching to synthetic oil you just change over and be done with it. synthetic oils lubricate better, have lower pumping losses(which accounts for better fuel economy), and runn cooler than conventional oils. if you dont want to pay the price of a full synthetic, you can save money and get most of the benefits by switching to a semi-synthetic. the leaking problems some people have had are caused by the oils tendency to clean the inside of the engine quite aggressively. what actually happens is the leak was there in the first place but because the old oil laid down deposits at the site of the leak the leak was "sealed". now when you switch to synthetic the old deposits are cleared away and you have the leak again.
a semi-synthetics does not clean as aggresively as a full synthetic so oyu dont have the "leak problem". i use a semi or a full synthetic in my grand marquis, and when i finaly get them on the road i will use full synthetics in my mustang and falcon. 10w-30 is the weight i would recomend for older cars, and for newer ones(after say 1985) i would go with what the manufacturer recomends.

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69maverick
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From: Thomaston,CT.
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posted 05-12-2001 08:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I started using an oil called Speed-sport from a Co. named DA lube. Its a syn-blend.
Red-line would be my 1st.choice but I get this stuff at cost from my Company! And for filters I only use Baldwin or Wix Filters.
They both filter to 5 microns!! The best 10 dollar K & N is only good to 10 Microns!!

But I really feel the Syn-blend is the way to go right now. Full synthetic is very cosly and like Steve said you need to change it anyway.even if you only put low miles on.

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74merc
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Posts: 1307
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-12-2001 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 74merc   Click Here to Email 74merc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
I change the Mobil 1 synthetic in my wife's T-bird every 5 miles. I would go a little longer but it sees a lot of town driving.

alot of hard runs in those 5 miles?
mind sending me some of the $$ you spend on oil? lol

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kid vishus
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Posts: 6617
From: middle of NC
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posted 05-13-2001 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 74merc:
alot of hard runs in those [b]5 miles?
mind sending me some of the $$ you spend on oil? lol[/B]

OOPS!!
I meant every 5K miles. It's been a long week.

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tempo1993
Gearhead

Posts: 583
From: CT, the home of high taxes
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posted 05-13-2001 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tempo1993   Click Here to Email tempo1993     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Howdy here in the classics

OK, just my $.02, but, the reason I don't use synthetic is, it's pretty much worthless when the engine is cold. The good thing about petrolium based oil is it sticks to everything in the engine, weather or not it is hot or cold. Synthetic on the otherhand is attracted to heat, and will only stick to parts when they're hot. That's the only reason I avoid it, I've tryed it in a couple of cars, including my 84 F-150 and 79 LeSaber bracketracer, both of which ended up NOT liking the synthetic. Switched back to 20-40 in the truck and 10-30 in the car, and never had a problem. You could head ticking and sometimes a nice grinding before the car warmed up :\ So I'm really not a but fan of synthetic personally.

~Scott~

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 3996
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 05-14-2001 04:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems to me that Ryan and Scott are disagreeing on an important point.
Ryan says : "I think for an engine that may set for a week at a time, the synthetics are worth there extra cost. The 'cling' of most synthetics is way better than a petro lube. So rather than rollover an engine (or trans or rearend) that has dripped & drained for a week or more and doesn't even have a visiable lube film on the parts any longer, personally, I'm more comfortable using a synthetic in them."
But Scott says: "OK, just my $.02, but, the reason I don't use synthetic is, it's pretty much worthless when the engine is cold. The good thing about petrolium based oil is it sticks to everything in the engine, weather or not it is hot or cold. Synthetic on the otherhand is attracted to heat, and will only stick to parts when they're hot."
Hmm, who's right? I was totally sold on making the switch until Scott's 2 cents came along.
Simon

[This message has been edited by Fastback68 (edited 05-14-2001).]

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richard bohm
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Posts: 373
From: tucson,az-luray,va
Registered: May 2001

posted 05-14-2001 05:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for richard bohm   Click Here to Email richard bohm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ultimately it comes down to personel preference. my opinion is synthetics are the way to go. they pump easier, have better film strength,and they will flow when non-synthetics are still a mass of jello in the pan. as far as brands go pennzoil, quaker state, castrol, valvoline, royal purple, and mobil 1 seem to be the brands of choice. i have used all but the royal purple and have liked each one. i have also used them in a variety of vehicles including an 84 tbird v-6, an 84 F-250 6.9 diesel, an 83 grand marquis 5.0, a 79 fairmont 5.0, and a 70 falcon (like a 69). i have had no problems with any of these vehicles. in fact on all except the truck and, oddly enough, the falcon, my fuel economy improved from just over 1 mpg(the grand marquis) to over 5 mpg(the tbird). all these engines also were in various states of wear. i believe firmly that a couple of them did not expire because i switched. just my opinion.

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69maverick
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From: Thomaston,CT.
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posted 05-14-2001 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Guys!! Guys!! Synthetic-Blend !!You get the best of both worlds. Lower price and better lubrication! Theres alot more to oil than I can tell you but the only oil Maker in the U.S. That sells oil thats drilled in the U.S. IS DA Lube. Its a hard base polimer oil
All other suppliers use soft based oil. Did
anyone notice that years ago people changed there oil every 20-30k weather it needed it or not!! The motors where not any better but the oil was. The government has made the oil producers take many of the best lubricating properties out of the oil to save the enviroment! But if they pay a permit fee they can put it in!! So this is one of the reasons the synthetics are so high!

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tempo1993
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posted 05-14-2001 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tempo1993   Click Here to Email tempo1993     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with 69mav, blend is the way to go, you have the cold startup protection of a petro based oil, and the highheat protection of a synthetic. I just got my certification from Valvoline a couple weeks ago, that's the only reason I gave my opinion I've also run Mobile 1 in my old LeSaber, and it caused me nothing but trouble, so if you do use or choose to use synthetic, avoid mobile one, cause I'm not the only person I've hear of having a problem with it(a guy I goto school with blew the engine in his Jeep, and swears it was the mobile one in it that did it)

I recommend a blend, or petro, not a big fan of straigh synthetics. I could see for racing purposes running synthetic would be better due to high stress high heat situations, but if you're going to stay on the street, go for a blend or a straight petro


~Scott~

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Jimmy Ray
Gearhead

Posts: 133
From: Virginia Beach Va.
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-14-2001 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jimmy Ray   Click Here to Email Jimmy Ray     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I use the petroleum based oil out of habit and also the cost. But my Crate motor I put in my Truck has to have Mobel 1 or X's out the warrenty.
Along time ago a friend of mine sold AMS Oil and he swore by it, But the price was to high. But he had fix for that, a reusable filters. They are cleanable just like Aircraft filters are. The thought was that you would never need to change the oil just clean the filters and add one quart due to loss from the filter removal/cleaning.
But again the Price was more than I was willing to pay. The filter was like $150.00 20 years ago.
By the way all Naval aircraft use synthetic. And we never change the oil, just filters on hourly inspections. That way we can take samples of the oil and tend the engine wear. It's called Naval Oil Analysis Program, NOAP for short.
An T-56 from from an E-2C runs at a constant RPM of 1106 with a maxuim turbine inlet temp of 1077 for a old -425 engine and the synthetics hold up much better than Petroleum based oil.
So I think synthetics are better but I not willing to pay the price.
Jimmy Ray
01 Bullitt 1007
73 Mach1 351CJ
67 Fastback
Maintenance Master Chief VF-101 in NAS Oceana

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seaweed
Gearhead

Posts: 141
From: MA.
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-14-2001 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for seaweed     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would like to here what Alex says about this topic.---What does he use in his engines on the drag strip---street??

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 2514
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-14-2001 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Guys,
Over on M&Ms, "Ford Racing", 'N20Mike' recently provided the web site that has some interesting views and comparisions of oil filters & types of oil. Check it out at:

http://members.nbci.com/_XOOM/minimopar/

then click on: "Tech Data"
then scrowl down to: "Engine"
then click on: "Oil Filter Study"
or "Oil Choices"

Later,,, Ryan

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steve'66
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Posts: 9555
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
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posted 05-14-2001 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by seaweed:
I would like to here what Alex says about this topic.---What does he use in his engines on the drag strip---street??

This was done before in December. Check it out,
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Archives/Archive-000022/HTML/20001224-1-002880.html

SteveW

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Moneymaker
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posted 05-14-2001 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Royal Purple. None better! No brag, just fact!

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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tempo1993
Gearhead

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From: CT, the home of high taxes
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posted 05-14-2001 06:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tempo1993   Click Here to Email tempo1993     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yeah, I missed one thing, if the engine COMES WITH synthetic, then tat's what the engine is made for, I know Benz and Porche do this, and the parts are different in some way(I'll get back to ya when I remember how)

~Scott~

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71Mach1
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Posts: 216
From: new jersey
Registered: Aug 99

posted 05-14-2001 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 71Mach1   Click Here to Email 71Mach1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can Royal Purple be used in street driven
cars? I recall someone telling me that it
didn't have certain additives needed for
regular street driving, don't remember what
they were.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

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From: Lyons, IL, USA
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posted 05-14-2001 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Royal Purple makes lubricants for anything that needs to be lubed! You can go to their website and look at their recomendations/applications for street driven cars. Their race oils are formulated just for that, RACING, but their street/performance and industrial stuff has all of the great properties and qualities associated with the racing oils.

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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horseballz
Gearhead

Posts: 294
From: LasVegas,NV
Registered: Dec 99

posted 05-15-2001 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for horseballz   Click Here to Email horseballz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Guys,
What about the concept of using synthetic, but spinning on a new filter every 2K or 3K miles? This seems that it would be a good way to take advantage of the longer life of the synth. oil while getting rid of the contaminants.
Alex, what do you think?
((((((((((((((((
Gene

------------------
68 coupe
289/3speed(soon to be 5.0/5speed)
68 Coupe
289
C4

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69maverick
Moderator

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From: Thomaston,CT.
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posted 05-16-2001 07:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After further review I would have to say in my opinion that the synthetics are the way to go! But if you wanted to save a few bucks
you could blend them yourself! I was thinking 3quarts syn.-2 quarts regular oil.
of the same brand!! And the filter I will use from this point on will be the Motorcraft
fl-1a . This filter seems to be one of the best for the money! The Wix,napa gold,Baldwin,puralator plus are all right in there.

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74merc
Gearhead

Posts: 1307
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-16-2001 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 74merc   Click Here to Email 74merc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by horseballz:
Hey Guys,
What about the concept of using synthetic, but spinning on a new filter every 2K or 3K miles? This seems that it would be a good way to take advantage of the longer life of the synth. oil while getting rid of the contaminants.
Alex, what do you think?
((((((((((((((((
Gene


the major contaminants you need to worry about aren't particles, thats what the filter is there for. the problem is the oil becomes acidic due to the combustion and blowby.
it loses its ability to lubricate, its consistancy and its adheasiveness(sp).

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joe
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From: Los Angeles
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 05-16-2001 12:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joe   Click Here to Email joe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is at best a five year old study but I recall, I think it was Consumer Report, that tested every kind of oil out there, including syn. and when they went to open the engines to check for wear, there were no signs that the syn. stuff protected any better. Like I said this is an old study and might no longer be accurate.
Myself being on a student budget, use reg. oil.

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jkilroy
Gearhead

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From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99

posted 05-16-2001 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jkilroy   Click Here to Email jkilroy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The one topic that will ALWAYS draw a crowd!

Before I get started I use both, 10-30 in the 68, change at 3000 and Mobile 1 in the 98, and change it at 7500.

but...

I used to work in a heavy equipment shop and we maintained, among other things, a fleet of 20 or so stretch vans. They used AMSOIL and the neat filter that they make. That combo is fantastic if you have the under hood room.

We would put 100,000 a year on those vans and the only oil that ever got changed was the stuff you had to replace when you changed the filter. We changed the primary filter every 7500 to 10,000 and the secondary filter every 20,000. After 100,000 miles the stuff still looked brand new. We did have a guy over heat one on the way back from New Orleans after loosing a hose and when we tore the motor down it was spotless. As apposed to the boss who had a olds "cut-less" company car and he swore by Quaker State. We change that junk every 3000 miles and at 60,000 he broke a timing chain. When we took it apart I could not believe the amount of black tar like sludge. You couldn't tell what was what that crap was so thick!

We also used one of those industrial oil analyzer companies for everything, let me tell you, worth every penny. (You don't want to tear down a 15,000 cubic inch diesel unless you have to, trust me on this)

Those vans never had problems. We didn't use the Amsoil in the diesels cause the boss made us use diesel stuff, I believe Rotella T, but I bet they would have lasted a lot longer if we had.

Like I said, I use both, but I have seen many cases where heavily used motors looked brand new inside after over 100,000 miles without EVER changing the oil, except for what you lost when you did a filter change.

------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"

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65coupei6
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Posts: 452
From: S.F., CA
Registered: May 2000

posted 05-17-2001 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65coupei6   Click Here to Email 65coupei6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am glad this post popped up. I was about to change my oil anyways. I went out and got some Royal Purpul for $4.61 a quart. Well see how it goes.

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

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From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
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posted 05-17-2001 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dang Jay! ..a 15,000 cubic-inch diesel.. ??!! That's one big mo-fo power-maker !!

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