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  Mustangsandmore Forum Archive
  Ford Trucks
  Bad C.O.P. on my 5.4?

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Author Topic:   Bad C.O.P. on my 5.4?
Catmando
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-06-2006 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catmando        Reply w/Quote
Think I had a C.O.P go bad today. ( 2001 5.4L )Noticed a couple small stumbles and then everything was ok at first. A while later, suddenly went into a full and constant miss. It is bad at cruise / light throttle. When accelerating it isn't so bad.
So, now I have to figure out which one is bad. Any tips??????????????

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-06-2006 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
If its missing and stumbling at idle, systematically remove one COP at a time. When you get to the bad COP, the engine will continue to miss as if it were never removed. If you remove a good COP, it should drastically change the miss/stumble.

If it doesn't miss/stumble at idle, then all I can think of is get a COP you know is good, and systematically replace one at a time and check for the miss while driving.

As an aside, even if you throw a DTC showing a bad coil over plug, unless you have one of those tools that shows you which one isn't firing, you'll have to do the one-at-time thing anyway.

Here's the tool I'm talking about: http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/wae76560.html

Stewart

PS - If you do have a bad COP, and it only misses intermittently, that tool may seem useless in trying to evaluate which COP is good and which COP is bad. (Bad COP, no donut!)

------------------
Said cynot65 to a troll on the board: "what a demented little spit puddle you are"

Black '99 Lightning
- It's my 13.19 second work truck!

2000 7.3L PSD Excursion
- The family land yacht

1990 Platinum GT: 25th Year Anniversary Edition
- Stolen and stripped, waiting to be rebuilt and reborn.

M&M Member #437

[This message has been edited by Stewart (edited 10-06-2006).]

Catmando
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-07-2006 12:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catmando        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the info Stewart. One more question. I don't want to fry any on the confuser .. err I mean computer stuff. Do I just unplug the COP from the harness, or do I need to take the COP off and leave it connected to the harness?? So far, no codes or check engine light.

Just looked at the link for the COP tool. Have you used one? The price doesn't seem bad and since Im keeping this truck for ever I may need it again. Plus the wifey's Mountaineer will be kept for several more years. May be a good small investment if they work.

[This message has been edited by Catmando (edited 10-07-2006).]

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 10-07-2006 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
Sad to see a good COP gone bad...

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-08-2006 12:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
LOL, Steve!

Catmando, just unplug the harness plug from the COP with the engine running.

Remember, this process of elimination will only work if the problem occurs while the engine is idling, in park.

While I don't have that tool, I have thought about buying one. The problem is, it would be so seldom used or needed (if ever) that it would be difficult to justify the cost.

Stewart

------------------
Said cynot65 to a troll on the board: "what a demented little spit puddle you are"

Black '99 Lightning
- It's my 13.19 second work truck!

2000 7.3L PSD Excursion
- The family land yacht

1990 Platinum GT: 25th Year Anniversary Edition
- Stolen and stripped, waiting to be rebuilt and reborn.

M&M Member #437

[This message has been edited by Stewart (edited 10-08-2006).]

Catmando
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-11-2006 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catmando        Reply w/Quote
Ok, I think, thought, did, didn't, Im not sure maybe found the bad C.O.P. It was second one in on driver side. I replaced it with a new one. Test drove and worked fine. Later that day I'm at work, wife calls , she is using the truck and its "chugging at 50mph". Rats. Check it the next day, yup, miss is back. A couple of days later I get around to working on the truck. No miss. I drove it around for over an hour. Nothing. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Catmando
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-16-2006 02:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catmando        Reply w/Quote
And now a few days later its back?!#@[email protected][email protected]@@@!!!!! Maybe I got a bad load of gas, fouled up an injector?? Still no check engine light. Jeez I miss carburetors!

[This message has been edited by Catmando (edited 10-16-2006).]

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-16-2006 03:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
Have you had it checked for any DTC's?

If you don't have a code scanner, go by an autoparts store. They'll usually scan vehicles for free to see if there are any diagnostic trouble codes.

Stewart

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-16-2006 03:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
When was the last time you changed your plugs? Fuel filter? Air filer?

Have you sprayed down the engine bay to clean it recently?

You don't happen to have a custom tune on it, do you?

Bad sensor somewhere? O2 maybe?

When was the last time you checked your TPS?

Just trying to throw some spaghetti against the wall, ya know?

Stewart

[This message has been edited by Stewart (edited 10-16-2006).]

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-16-2006 03:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
Oh, on a side note, don't forget to check your plugs regularly. The modular heads only came with 4 threads in the spark plug holes and they have a nasty habit of spitting plugs.

For the 5.4, Ford didn't up the thread count until the model year '03 vehicles.

I've had one spit on my Lightning, and ever since, have faithfully checked them every six months or so. In fact, I just pulled all my COPS and checked my plugs last week...I found three plugs had loosened up and were only finger tight.

Stewart

Catmando
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-17-2006 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catmando        Reply w/Quote
Everything is up to snuff, I have not checked the TPS nor the plugs. I am going to replace all of them during this work. Engine did not get wet.
No aftermarket computer stuff, truck is all stock. Probably original plugs. It has 69k on it now. The two plugs I pulled looked fine. I felt like a cheap skate leaving them, but what the heck.
If it was pushing a plug out, would I not hear the compression squeezing by?
The "DTC", would that not show a check engine light? I have not had the check light come on.
Stewart, I greatly appreciate all the help you are giving!

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-18-2006 01:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Catmando:
Stewart, I greatly appreciate all the help you are giving!

Thanks, but I'm batting zilch so I don't think I've been much help!

Yes, usually when you throw a code, the SES light comes on, but not always. My code reader has discovered DTC's when the SES light was not activated.

Heck, I've had my SES light activate and my code reader says there are no trouble codes!

I've never had it be wrong though when there was something truly wrong with the truck needing repair or replacement.

When the plugs start to get loose, you'll hear what sounds like an exhaust leak. The "fake" exhuast leak sound is more noticeable when you're parked next to a fence or another car, idling, with the widnows down. Because the sound bounces back towards you, it sounds very, very similar to a small leak.

When you open your hood though, what you hear is a fairly distinct ticking or tapping sound. It's not unlike the tick your injectors make, but the injector tick is less distinct, almost muted sounding...softer.

Stewart

------------------
Said cynot65 to a troll on the board: "what a demented little spit puddle you are"

Black '99 Lightning
- It's my 13.19 second work truck! :D

2000 7.3L PSD Excursion
- The family land yacht

1990 Platinum GT: 25th Year Anniversary Edition
- Stolen and stripped, waiting to be rebuilt and reborn.

M&M Member #437

Catmando
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-18-2006 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catmando        Reply w/Quote
Ahh, this may have been the K.I.S.S. principle. I added some injector cleaner to the tank, and two days now its running fine. I may still get the thing coded to see if there is anything showing.

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-18-2006 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
Try running some Sea Foam through it.

Here's a write-up I did for an SVT site.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282497

Stewart

------------------
Said cynot65 to a troll on the board: "what a demented little spit puddle you are"

Black '99 Lightning
- It's my 13.19 second work truck! :D

2000 7.3L PSD Excursion
- The family land yacht

1990 Platinum GT: 25th Year Anniversary Edition
- Stolen and stripped, waiting to be rebuilt and reborn.

M&M Member #437

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 11-02-2006 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
How's the truck running? Any more problems?

Stewart

[This message has been edited by Stewart (edited 11-02-2006).]

FORDWARD7
Journeyman

Posts: 3
From: BEN WHEELER,TX
Registered: Oct 2006

posted 11-03-2006 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FORDWARD7        Reply w/Quote
CHANGE THE RIGHT REAR COIL....

------------------
TONY L.WARD

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 11-03-2006 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
Another idea that came to mind, check the rubber boots on the end of the COP. They can develop small pin holes in them over time (possibility, not saying they will...just that they can) which can cause misfires and stumbles.

Stewart

------------------
Said cynot65 to a troll on the board: "what a demented little spit puddle you are"

Black '99 Lightning
- It's my 13.19 second work truck! :D

2000 7.3L PSD Excursion
- The family land yacht

1990 Platinum GT: 25th Year Anniversary Edition
- Stolen and stripped, waiting to be rebuilt and reborn.

M&M Member #437

Catmando
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 11-06-2006 12:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catmando        Reply w/Quote
Well, about 2 weeks now and everything is still ok. Guess bad load of gas or dirty injectors. I'm going to change the plugs in a week or so. Thanks for all the help.

Stewart
Gearhead

Posts: 10525
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 11-06-2006 01:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart        Reply w/Quote
If you haven't done so, don't forget to change the fuel filter.

If it's in the same place as my '99 Lightning, it'll be on the drivers side, inside frame rail, in front of the rear tire.

Stewart

------------------
Said cynot65 to a troll on the board: "what a demented little spit puddle you are"

Black '99 Lightning
- It's my 13.19 second work truck! :D

2000 7.3L PSD Excursion
- The family land yacht

1990 Platinum GT: 25th Year Anniversary Edition
- Stolen and stripped, waiting to be rebuilt and reborn.

M&M Member #437

Catmando
Gearhead

Posts: 340
From: Vermilion, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 11-07-2006 12:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catmando        Reply w/Quote
I did the filter and then dumped in some injector cleaner.

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