Assuming that it all comes through, I just sold my 92 F-150 302/AOD. Was a great truck, bought it new, but at 207K miles it's time to move on.

This week I will be looking for a new truck. Need some opinions on the Powerstroke diesel vs the V-10 gas engine.

I intend to get a F-250 SD ext cab 4X4. With financial considerations in place I can afford either a new V-10 gas burner or a slightly used diesel. Something like a '00-'01 model in the 35K mile range. The diesel is a $4K + option when new.

The truck will see moderate towing duty for my drag car and open trailer + tools, fuel (~5000 lbs) , but will be mainly a daily/weekend driver. I have a Honda econobox that is used for my daily 120 mile round trip commute. The truck will be used for the trip in inclement weather plus around town duty.

Pluses and minus for either?

Mileage?

Reliability, service issues?

Later,

If it were me, and I were buying for the exact same reasons, I'd get the Powerstroke diesel for two main reasons.

1) Ford doesn't give you a 100K mile powertrain warrantee on the diesel for nothing. They last.

2) The V10 consumes more gas than the diesel. This is based upon info from owners of both the V10's and diesels.

Other considerations of course include the torque of the diesel.

Stewart

Some of my friends had Fords with diesels,and they had real tough times getting their warranty claims through. One blew a torque convertor: it wasn't covered.

You have to keep the coolant treated,or cavitation can result. Also not covered under warranty.

Even regular maintainence is costly. You can kiss the $15 oil change good bye.

A while ago I came across a web site of pissed off Ford diesel owners. They were madder than hornets in there! Most of them had engines fail due to cylinder wall cavitation. Supposedly the stresses in the combustion of a diesel are able to cause fatigue damage to cylinder walls. You are supposed to use a additive in the coolant to neutralize this process. At last report, Ford still isn't telling owners about this, the engines fail, and Ford claims they 'abused them.'

No oil burners for me, either, thanks!

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
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My goal is to stop being such a pessimist... but that probably won't happen...

http://www.interstat.net/ford/guestbook/guest.temp

quote:

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Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Here's an excellent explaination of cavitation, from www.Ford-Diesel.com
http://www.ford-diesel.com/contents/getitems.php3?Cavitation%20Analysis

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[b] Cavitation Analysis

Source:

Michael

"A very frequent question I receive via e-mail and on the Chat Board is about cavitation in the Ford diesels. It's a well-known problem, but doesn't seem to be as common as some people think. I myself have never personally seen one with the problem. Cavitation is not an inherent problem with Ford diesels, almost all diesel engines are subject to it without proper maintenance. The problem with Ford is that they neglected to put those maintenance procedures in their owner's manuals. They remedied this with the new Power Strokes.

What is cavitation? One of our diesel experts offered this explanation:

Cavitation is a localized low pressure zone. This low pressure zone is caused by the flexing of the cylinder wall due to the high compression in a diesel engine vs. gasoline engine (which is why gasoline engines don't typically get this failure mode). Basically what happens is the cylinder wall quickly expands due to compression, then returns to the orginal geometry. This fast cylinder wall movement causes a low pressure zone to be created at the cylinder wall. When this pressure zone drops below the vapor pressure point (temperature, coolant ratio, and additive dependant) a vapor bubble is formed. When this low pressure zone returns to a high pressure zone, the vapor bubble collapses, causing an implosion, or pitting phenomena on the cylinder wall (like hitting the surface with a microscopic ball peen hammer). If left unchecked, it will eventually eat all the way through the cylinder wall.

The next question is probably What do I do to prevent cavitation? The answer is simple, add the appropriate coolant additive at 15,000 mile intervals and perform a complete coolant change every 30,000. By following these procedures, you'll never have a coolant-related failure. The additives include Ford's FW-16 (replacement for the older FW-15), Fleetguard's DCA4, Penray's Pencool, and others. A new alternative is to use Cat and Fleetguard's new extended life coolant. It is impregnated with the proper additive and mixed to the proper antifreeze/water combination at the factory. You simply pour it in.

If you're purchasing a used Ford diesel, you'll want to make sure it doesn't have the cavitation problem. There are several ways to do this. The most reliable (and complex) can be found in the General Tips section of this site called Cavitation Diagnosis. Unfortunately, most sellers won't allow you to go to those lengths on their truck!

All of the following information comes from one of our diesel coolant experts, Michael.

Most likely the easiest test is a a combination of two. The first being a coolant
system pressure test. This is very simple as instead of applying pressure to each
cylinder, it is applied to the entire cooling system. This test is usually done to about 25-30 psi and will show a leakdown of any coolant joint, or a through hole in a cylinder. Test kits are available from any auto parts store. One thing to keep in mind though, a leakdown will not necessarily mean a back block, it may be a bad pump, hose joint, etc. The second test is to measure the pH of the coolant. As exhaust gases are passed into the coolant, it will become acidic. This will also indicate early head gasket failure (although in diesels, there is a permissible blowby which is acceptable due to the high compression ratio).

Another check is at initial start up. Usually this is done in conjunction with test #1
(pressurize the cooling system). As on cold start up, with a pressurized cooling system, cylinder leakage should show up as vapor or excessive water from the tailpipe, this is due to no catalyst function on a cold start. Also check the oil for signs of any water/coolant present. As on shutdown, a cylinder hole will continue to flow into the cylinder, past the rings, and into the crankcase.

As for why some show a problem at 100k and others go 250k without any maintenance, this is mostly due to duty cycle of the truck. Heavy duty usage and high rpm/boost conditions will increase the in-cylinder pressures dramatically. For instance, you may increase boost from the turbo by 5 psi (or install a hyper chip for more fuel under accelleration) and it doesn't seem like that much a difference at a glance, after all, how much can an extra 5 psi hurt this thing right? Well 5 psi more in boost can easily increase in-cylinder pressures by as much as 1500 psi when detonating charge is starting. This increase in pressure increases the frequency and amplitude of the cylinder wall flexing which translates to more cylinder cavitation, and then premature failure.

The best advice is never buy a truck that you don't know what the maintenance has been. If the guy has receipts for FW-15 over time, chances are he used it. Look at the cooling system very careful. If the cap looks as if it has been on and off a lot and/or has residual coolant around the bottle (or overflow bottle), then the owner has been adding coolant for a while to the truck. Look at the exhaust for rust on the i.d. of the pipe. These diesels run like pigs (6.9's and 7.3's) from the injection system. They coat the pipes with soot and diese fuel. If the pipe shows rust, then there is a lot of moisture being pushed through it, most likely
coolant."
[/B]

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The cooling system problems are caused by not having enough SCA (Supplemental Cooling Additive). The SCA is described in the owners manual diesel supplement, You test it with test strips every 15K miles. Add as needed to keep within a certain range. The additive costs like $5.00 per pint, usually 1 pint is enough. If you don't keep a check on this and have a cavitation problem Ford considers it neglect. Same as running it out of oil. This only on the '01 and earlier models.

The '02's have new different coolant that requires no additives. The '01 and earlier gaskets are not compatible with the new coolant.

The biggest warranty problems come from the addition of aftermarket parts. Especially computer chips and exhaust brakes (Jake Brake). You add either of them and a dealer finds out, they will void the 100K powertrain warranty on the spot.

Later,

Tom

I still love the Powerstroke, and would rather have one of those than a gas hogging V10.

Thanks to all who gave input on the Powerstroke vs V-10.

Couldn't resist. Bought a PSD yesterday. Found a great deal on a still new 2001. The '01 models have a better financing rate than the "02 (in the fine print on Ford's current ad campaign).

The savings on the interest allowed my to get more of a truck for the same money. Went all out. The interest savings over the life of the loan put the PSD within $2500 of the V-10. It'll be worth more than that on resale. There were no '01 V-10's (other than base XL work trucks) left in the state. I checked every dealer in the state via the web. Had to drive a ways to get it.

When I say all out, I mean it. Bought a dually. 2001, F-350 Super Cab, XLT, DRW, PSD/Auto. Love it in the 165 miles so far. Geared really low w 4.10 limited slip, (all dually's get them) but the tires are tall enough that cruise on the highway @75 mph equals 2400 rpm. First impress on the mpg is excellent. 165 miles so far. 150 highway at 75 mph cruise, 15 miles around town. Topped it off last night. 19.4 mpg! Will prob get better when it's broken in.

Now I get to learn to speak a new language. Rotella or Delo? Oil, lot's of oil. 15 qt changes.

You know you need guages, a chip, exhaust, downpipe, intake, and propane!

Have fun with the new truck!

Love it so far. Runs and tows like nothing else. Oil changes are 15 qts. Oil and filter from Wal-Mart cost me $33. Changed the oil at 2K to get the break in oil out. Will change again at 5K, then go to 5K intervals per Ford. I added a K & N filter (Christmas gift) and can get fuel filters (every 10K) online for $12. Ford wants $45+

Hopefully it will hold up. Since it's not used in a business it has a 3/36 bumper to bumper warranty and 5/100 engine warranty. If is start having any problems I can buy one of several extended warranties from Ford at any point up until I hit 3/36.

Later,

Later,