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Author
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Topic: what exactly is a 430ci lincoln?
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dhearn
Gearhead Posts: 231
From: Owenton Ky,USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-15-2002 01:16 AM
   
I found a 68 lincoln with a 430ci engine unfortunatly I was unable to open the hood due to about a million wasps peering at me from between the hood and header panel. my question is what is a 430? is it an FE based motor or a 385 series or just a one off? does it warrant fighting with wasps?
Dennis
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 1985
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 07-15-2002 03:25 AM
It belonged to the Ford MEL series, some of the heaviest engines they ever built. Here's some info on the 430 ... not off the top of my head! I'm not THAT brilliant  I don't know why there should be one in a '68 car (see first point).
1) commonly referred to as the Bulldozer of the MEL series and lasted from 1958 to 1965.
2) In its' "souped up" version, the 430 was commonly referred to as the Super Marauder and came with three two barrel carburators.
3) bore and stroke of 4.29 X 3.7 inches
4) Compression ratios started at 10.5.1 but soon began to decline late in 1959 to 10.0.1 at 350 horsepower.
5) The higher horsepower versions of the 430 remained within its first year of production with horsepower of 365, 375 and 400.
6) In 1959 the horsepower slowly began to reduce, yet hold a moderate 345 ponies even with a slightly less compression ratio of 10.0.1.
7) In 1960, the big 430 cubic inch used a milder camshaft, producing 315 horsepower.
8) 1963 when the 430 got an overhaul with new pistons and a four barrel carb, pushing compression to 10.1.1 and a horsepower rating of about 345.
9) It could be found in the 1958 Lincoln Continental Convertible, rating 400 horsepower and nearly 500 foot pounds of torque.
10) Mercury also used the 430 cubic inch until 1960.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 07-15-2002 01:08 PM
1968 was the last year for the MEL/FE 383-430-462 series Linclon engine. It was phased out in January as the 385 series engines were introduced in T-birds and Mark III's.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl [This message has been edited by Moneymaker (edited 07-16-2002).]
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7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 1608
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 07-15-2002 06:19 PM
65 was the last year for the 430, 66/67 they went to 462, 68 could have been a 462 or a 460, 69's were all 460's. RAY------------------
RAY, THE WISE A@@ PHILLY GUY!!
CLICK FOR MY PHOTO ALBUM http://community.webshots.com/album/41183413shedxk
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bifs66
Gearhead Posts: 183
From: Maryland
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 07-15-2002 07:10 PM
Someone may correct me if my memory is wrong, but wasn't the big Lincoln engine designed similar to the 348/408 Chevy in that the head surface was perfectly flat with the combustion chamber formed within the cylinder wall. This was accomplished by having the block deck at an angle to the cylinder wall axis instead of perpendicular. ------------------
Bernie Frank
66 Fastback restomod project
85 GT (preserved)
82 GT (original)
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dhearn
Gearhead Posts: 231
From: Owenton Ky,USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-16-2002 07:53 AM
Sounds like I found a real boat anchor huh!
I am going to check out the rear end It should be a nine inch whats the posibility of it being a trac loc? none or good?
Dennis
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 07-16-2002 09:08 AM
I corrected my post to include the 462. It is the same engine family as the 430. 1968 was the last year and it was only early production cars. It is nothing like a 348-409-427 Z-11 chebbie. It is very similar to an FE. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1026
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 07-16-2002 08:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I corrected my post to include the 462. It is the same engine family as the 430. 1968 was the last year and it was only early production cars. It is nothing like a 348-409-427 Z-11 chebbie. It is very similar to an FE.
I thought the MEL's blocks deck was not perpendicular to the bore centerline (like the 348/409)......
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Dad Vishus
Gearhead Posts: 598
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 07-17-2002 04:06 PM
There was a 410 also. Was that the same series?An Uncle of mine had a 60 Merc with a 410 in it. Take a can of carb cleaner along the next time to deal with the wasps. Kills them boys right now. [This message has been edited by Dad Vishus (edited 07-17-2002).]
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7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 1608
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 07-17-2002 06:35 PM
The 410 that I know is an FE. It's a 390 block with a 428 crank, but they didn't come out until 66, unless there was another 410. RAY------------------
RAY, THE WISE A@@ PHILLY GUY!!
CLICK FOR MY PHOTO ALBUM http://community.webshots.com/album/41183413shedxk
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bifs66
Gearhead Posts: 183
From: Maryland
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 07-17-2002 08:29 PM
Looks like we got ourselves a little friendly discussion going on here over some Ford engine history. I dug into my archives and the Oct 57 Hot Rod did a technical article on the new 58 Edsel! One of the engines is a 410 Cu in V-8 which uses a deck/head setup similar to the 348/409 Chevy. Not sure of the Chev deck angle but the Ford 410 is 10 deg. The remaining question is if this engine also served as the basis for the 430 Lincoln. It was a Y-block type but the intake manifold didn't extend under the valve covers. I may have to research a little deeper. I could scan a cutaway picture of it if anyone wishes to see it.------------------
Bernie Frank
66 Fastback restomod project
85 GT (preserved)
82 GT (original)
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dhearn
Gearhead Posts: 231
From: Owenton Ky,USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-18-2002 09:40 AM
This is turning out to be fun stuff keep it coming I enjoy all the input on the old stuff, it makes me better prepared for my junkyard and barnyard adventures.------------------
1969 MACH 1
THE FEEL AND SOUND OF A FORD V-8 IS ALL THE DRUGS A MAN NEEDS
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 07-18-2002 12:12 PM
410 is from the FE family, Merc only. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl
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7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 1608
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 07-18-2002 07:25 PM
Bernie, now I know why I didn't know about the other 410 engine. In 1957 I was only six years old. LOL RAY------------------
RAY, THE WISE A@@ PHILLY GUY!!
CLICK FOR MY PHOTO ALBUM http://community.webshots.com/album/41183413shedxk
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bifs66
Gearhead Posts: 183
From: Maryland
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 07-19-2002 12:17 PM
Well, I dove further into the dusty archives and came up with a May 1962 Car-Life which was running a history of Ford V-8 engine designs. Ray, I was 20 in 1962 yet somehow I still remembered this article! Anyway, the period beginning in 1958 states the following:
"...Ford had just tooled two brand new V-8 engine designs.... a medium-sized job for Ford and Edsel, and a big one for Mercury and Lincoln...."
It goes on to describe the Ford/Edsel version as having 332 and the Edsel 361 cubes; and that it has the pushrods pass through the intake manifold. This was the new FE engine. The article then goes on to document the new Lincoln engine and states:
".. The big Lincoln-Mercury engine was designed strictly to give very smooth, quiet reliable long-lived power in heavy luxury cars...It weighed over 700 Lbs. It has been used in displacements of 383, 410, and 430 cu in. Its most unusual feature was the combustion chamber in the cylinder bore, al la Chevrolet 348. There's a story here, but I don't know it. That is, ever wonder why two separate companies came out with this radically-new combustion chamber the same year? The GM people say a Chevrolet engineer quit sometime in 1956 and took blueprints of the Chev 'W' engine over to Ford. The Ford people have it the other way."
So there you have it. Alex, apparently Ford made two different 410 cu in engines over the years. This article has cutaway pictures of the two engines and goes on to tell about increasing the FE engine to 390 and 406 cubes. There's also some good stuff on an earlier 1952 317 cu in Lincoln engine (Fords first OHV V-8) and the Y-block series (239,272,292,312).------------------
Bernie Frank
66 Fastback restomod project
85 GT (preserved)
82 GT (original)
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 07-19-2002 01:30 PM
The 410 Lincoln is news to me.  Then again, I was 9 years old in 1962.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl
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fordfan
Gearhead Posts: 3017
From: Walla Walla, Wa, USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 10-04-2002 10:52 PM
http://members.tripod.com/lyc_42/fordv8/mel/mel.htm this site has aome pics and info.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-08-2002 11:36 AM
Temporarily UnavailableThe Tripod page you are trying to reach has exceeded its hourly bandwidth limit. The site will be available again in 2 hours! Thank you!
 ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 384
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-28-2002 01:58 AM
The -EDSEL E-475 410CI- was available in the EDSEL only. The 1968 LINCOLN came with a 462CI early production. The 1958 MERCURY MARAUDER 430CI 3X2 was rated at 400HP.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-28-2002 09:02 AM
Welcome to M&M Kultulz !Thanks for the link. Very interesting. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 384
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-28-2002 01:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Welcome to M&M Kultulz !
Thanks for the link. Very interesting.
THANK YOU! -1958 MERCURY 430 3X2-
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 478
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 10-28-2002 03:35 PM
Weren't some of the MEL engines available in the 58 Tbird? Or am I just remembering some engine swaps that friends of mine did.John
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-28-2002 03:42 PM
Alternator in 1958?????????? ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 384
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-28-2002 04:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JCQuinn@work:Weren't some of the MEL engines available in the 58 Tbird? Or am I just remembering some engine swaps that friends of mine did. John
Yes...The LINCOLN and TBIRD (1958/1960) were assembled on the same production lines and the 430 was put into the TBIRD chassis for extra performance as the FE's of that time were cut back due to the ban on racing. HOLMAN-MOODY ran these in NASCAR until the 352CI 360HP was introduced to the FORD line in 1960. So... The 383/430 was used in MERCURY assembly; The 410 was restricted to the larger EDSEL models; The 430 was used on the LINCOLN line until it was replaced with the 462 in 1966. MERCURY dropped the MEL Series during the 1960 model run and used the 223 six. the Y-Block and the FE Series. It remained the main power source for LINCOLN until the 385 Series replaced it in 1968. Now the secret is...how much performance parts were developed by HM and what happened to them? I have seen an EDELBROCK 3X2 intake manifold, but have not come across or heard anything about dual quads. Have seen a photo of a Hillborn setup. -More Reference Material- -Additional Drool Factor- And yes, FORD did make available alternators to carry the heavy electrical load of the LINCOLNS and MERCURY's. [This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 10-28-2002).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-28-2002 06:38 PM
I also have seen MEL Hilborn port injectors. Both for sale and on an actual car. Some 57-59 Merc top end roadster had them at a L/M show/function I attended in the 80's.
SO just where did these mysterious alternators from the 50's originate?
I do not even recall seeing any POLICE PACKAGE Leece Neville stuff available for FoMoCo's until 1960. My friends 57 MkII has a generator on it as does his 59 Mk, power back glass convert. (what a boat that thing is  )
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 384
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-29-2002 06:38 AM
quote:
SO just where did these mysterious alternators from the 50's originate?
I see your skepticism. I have never actually seen an alternator installation on an early Linc/Merc, but it had to be available...most likely as an option. I have a microfiche reader here, but mostly FORD microfiche, so I cannot go directly to early MERCURY service parts. In the 1960/1964 FORD microfiche, it lists alternator assemblies and mounting parts. The alternator is cataloged according to Engineering/Stamping No. rather than application. There is a cross reference for B9MF 10300 which is a MERCURY I.D. no. That's all I can offer until I am able to obtain LINC/MERC fiche. I also have a 1958 MERCURY shop manual and no section mentions the installation. But ususally, something like this is handled in a separate manual or Shop Tips/TSB, as is the 3x2 setup. I just have a strong interest in early MEL and enjoy discussing them on the boards as there is always someone that is more familiar with them than I and I learn something new. If I ever open my mouth and put my foot in it (which happens often), please correct me. We are here to learn and exchange information, right?
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 35449
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-29-2002 09:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by KULTULZ:
[BIf I ever open my mouth and put my foot in it (which happens often), please correct me. We are here to learn and exchange information, right? [/B]
I like your style! ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-29-2002 12:27 PM
Ditto Steve! I suspect that the alternators were "add on" Leece Neville HD units that were purchased by FoMoCo and issued part numbers after installation kits were engineered. I have see THOSE on police cars as far back as 1957. The early radio equipment for highway patrol cars took a fair amount of amperage to operate and the generators of the day just could not handle the load. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 384
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 10-29-2002 12:52 PM
quote:
Leece Neville HD
Correct!
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 10-29-2002 01:01 PM
As I usually am. Vain bastard aren't I? ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-03-2002 11:53 AM
Hey Kultulz...
DO you have any info on that weird 57-58(?) Merc roadster "top speed" racer?
I know that it had serveral different power plants throughout it's life. When I saw it last it had been restored and had a 368 Lincoln with Hilborn port injectors.
I had heard that at one time FoMoCo (race engineers) popped in a poked and stroked 460+ MEL Lincoln with twin McCollouch puffers trying to hit 150 MPH at Daytona? ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 384
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 11-04-2002 05:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Hey Kultulz...
YO? quote:
DO you have any info on that weird 57-58(?) Merc roadster "top speed" racer?
There is a website dedicated to it, but I have seemed to have lost it. Will post it when I come across it again. I have the photos of the 368 (Hillborn) on disc. [This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 11-04-2002).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-04-2002 11:12 AM
TANKS! ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-11-2002 10:38 AM
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 384
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
|
posted 11-12-2002 07:12 AM
... still looking ...
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-15-2002 01:10 PM
Thank you. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 11-30-2002 08:26 PM
 ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
IP: Logged |
KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 384
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
|
posted 02-28-2003 03:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
WAKE UP! -The Mermaid Mercury- Hey...So I am a little slow...
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 20207
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
|
posted 03-03-2003 11:56 PM
Thank you!
Oh sooooooo cool! 
------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 1199
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 03-10-2003 02:49 PM
This is truely a one of a kind car that you won't see anywhere else! I hope this quote is true!
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