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Author Topic:   Anyone ever hear the story about FoMoCo's......
Moneymaker
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Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-17-2001 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
487 cubic inch 61 and 62 Galaxies built by the factory for NASCAR?

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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
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Stewart
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From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
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posted 03-18-2001 06:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart   Click Here to Email Stewart     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I haven't. I'd love to hear it!

Stewart

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DidgeyTrucker
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Posts: 1190
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
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posted 03-18-2001 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DidgeyTrucker   Click Here to Email DidgeyTrucker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, but I've heard about the 396's.

Tracy

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Moneymaker
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posted 03-18-2001 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
487 story is a great one. It was the cause of the 7 litre limit imposed by NASCAR for 1963.

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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
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Thud
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From: Cumming,Ga.,USofA
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posted 03-19-2001 07:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The '62s had the "Starlift" roof (looked like a '61 Starliner). They took them to Bonneville and set a bunch of records.
The "Starlift" roof was an attempt to fix the aero problem of the Galaxie's formal roofline. It was made of fiberglas and bolted on. NASCAR allowed it for at least one race (maybe a couple?) and it won. The Pontiac folks raised holy hell about it being made of a "lightweight material". They raised so much noise that NASCAR issued magnets to its inspectors and put an end to the Pontiac's aluminum doors, fenders, hoods and decklids.

Moral: If the sanctioning body is looking the other way on your stuff, don't raise hell about the other guy's.

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"It only takes money"

Dwayne

M&M Member #18
'94 Lightning #942 of 4007
'70 Mach1
'69 Cyclone Spoiler II
'65 Galaxie 500 + parts car

[This message has been edited by Thud (edited 03-19-2001).]

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AKBOSSMAN
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Posts: 2923
From: WASILLA , AK USA M&M #743 MCA #40857
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-30-2002 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AKBOSSMAN   Click Here to Email AKBOSSMAN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is that why the Galaxies had "7 Liter" engines when every thing else was in CID s?

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WAYNE CURTIS

70 GRABBER GREEN BOSS 302

01 Sangria Red Focus ZX3
03 Boss 302 (5.0) (waiting on order form)
92 SHELBY 4X4 (K-9 IDITAROD LEAD DOG)
My old '71Torino GT
"If your under control then your not going fast enough" Parnelli Jones

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Daniel Jones
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From: St. Louis, MO
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posted 01-30-2002 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex,

What was the stroke on the 487's? I have a stroker 427 side oiler that came with a 4.25" stroke crank. The original owner/builder of the engine died, so it's history is fuzzy. The crank and rods have been polished so much they look like aluminum but I can see the faint outline of a Ford part number. Also, the crank is swinging Lemans rods so it's not an offset ground 428CJ crank. My best guess is that it's some sort of welded stroker crank.

Thanks,
Dan Jones

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Moneymaker
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posted 02-11-2002 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was 4.50 stroke Dan. I guess that I should finish the story shouldn't I?

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
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Thud
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From: Cumming,Ga.,USofA
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posted 02-12-2002 06:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I sure want to hear it....

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"It only takes money"

Dwayne

M&M Member #18
'94 Lightning #942 of 4007
'70 Mach1
2 '69 Cyclone Spoiler II's
'65 Galaxie 500 + parts car

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Stewart
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From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 02-12-2002 06:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart   Click Here to Email Stewart     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stewart on 03-18-2001 at 06:16 AM:
I haven't. I'd love to hear it!

Stewart


I still feel the same way!

Stewart

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SteveLaRiviere
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From: Saco, Maine
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posted 02-12-2002 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex = Mr. Molasses

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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Thud
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From: Cumming,Ga.,USofA
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posted 02-12-2002 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've heard of a dramatic pause, but this is just a little excessive!

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"It only takes money"

Dwayne

M&M Member #18
'94 Lightning #942 of 4007
'70 Mach1
2 '69 Cyclone Spoiler II's
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Daniel Jones
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From: St. Louis, MO
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posted 02-12-2002 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Antici.......Say it!.....pation

With a 4.5" stroke, I guess they'd be based on 406 blocks. Let's here it it Alex.

Dan Jones

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Moneymaker
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From: Lyons, IL, USA
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posted 02-12-2002 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes they were based on 406 blocks. I'll post the entire story tonight just before we go to the hot tub.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
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Moneymaker
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posted 02-13-2002 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm tired now so I'll do it in the morning.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
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SteveLaRiviere
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posted 02-13-2002 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Surrrrrrrrrreeee you will...

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
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68F100
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Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
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posted 02-16-2002 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Still waiting...

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DidgeyTrucker
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Posts: 1190
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
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posted 02-17-2002 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DidgeyTrucker   Click Here to Email DidgeyTrucker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've heard about Jack Bowsher getting all sorts of illegal NASCAR stuff to test in USAC because he wouldn't win and wouldn't get torn down and be found out. Did you see the pics of his '71 Torino with the CONVEX rear window?

Alex........where are you?

Tracy

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Thud
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From: Cumming,Ga.,USofA
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posted 02-18-2002 07:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DidgeyTrucker:
Did you see the pics of his '71 Torino with the CONVEX rear window?
Tracy

The convex backlight was developed by Ford to try to get the rear of the King Cobra Torino to stick (sucker had bad lift at the fast tracks). I didn't know it was ever used in anger. Tracy, do you know where those pics are posted?

Deja Vu!! Wayne posted a picture of the Calypso Coral King Cobra in the Mid-size Forum!

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"It only takes money"

Dwayne

M&M Member #18
'94 Lightning #942 of 4007
'70 Mach1
2 '69 Cyclone Spoiler II's
'65 Galaxie 500 + parts car

[This message has been edited by Thud (edited 02-18-2002).]

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Moneymaker
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posted 02-18-2002 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so OK I forgot. It's not like one of you could have reminded me or something.
OK here ya go.:
In 1960 stock car racing was getting very big. TV was still fairly new and print media was the nations premier choice for obtaining news. Racing on TV was non existant. Every paper and magazine covered Daytona after 1959 because it was big news. The auto manufacturers loved it because it was FREE advertising. Win on Sunday meant sell on Monday. As aerodynamics became more prevelant in motorsports the manufacturers began experimenting with one off designs. The 60 Starliner was solely introduced for Nascar initially, but the public loved the styling so many were produced. GM and Chrysler also played with some designs, but not quite as aggresively as FoMoCo. The 61 chebbie Impala bubble coupe was very succesful for GM as was the Pontiac Catalina and Ventura. By 1962 it was pretty much anything goes and the engineers had a free reign to do whatever it took to win. Nascar had rules that allowed any part or package as long as it had a factory part number. NHRA and AHRA had similar rules in drag racing. That's how so much of the "FE" and "XE" part numbers came about with FoMoCo.
There was no specific displacment rule in Nascar at the time as long as it had a factory part number. If you notice in some of the old Speedvision shows and photos, most of the stock cars had only HP on the hoods, not displacement. FoMoCo was trying to win anything and everything they could in motorsports as the "ink" was selling a lot of cars.
In 1962 they entered a couple of H&M preped cars in the Pikes Peak Hill climb event "stock car" class. They took 406 blocks and bored and stroked them to 487 cubic inches. Cranks were made for FoMoCo by Reath in California. They also made all of SHelbys cranks (legal and cheater)as well as the GT-40 stuff usnig FoMoCo's blueprints. Well, Ford won Pikes Peak and broke every existing record by a mile. Nobody ever checked for displacment. The philosophy was "well if it worked once, it should work again!"
The teams showed up at Daytona for testing with 62 Galaxie converts and special "lift off" Starliner styled roofs. It was listed as a legitimate option and Ford even brought along a new Galaxie with the top installed. They got Nascar to buy it...for a while. When the cars took to the track the Fords were 10-12 MPH faster than anyone else. Even though GM had 468 inch Pontiacs, and 454 inch 409 block chebbies, and Mopar had 466 inch 426 Max Wedge cars, the FOrd 487 inch stuff just flew right past them. These cars were still basically stock and were going near 175 MPH in 1962!!!!!! Think about that!
GM and Chrysler bitched up a storm. Because everyone was cheating so blatantly on dispalcement nobody could really say anything about engines. Sooooo, they lobbied Nascar against the roof siting that they went to Ford dealers in Florida and not one even knew about the option or could order such a car and top option. Nascar agreed and bounced the fastback 62 cars. SInce the Ford team cars all had the big inch motors, and only the privateers were left to race with the square back Galaxies that had legitimate 406 engines, GM ran away with the race. The 468 inch Pontiacs were very fast.
Many drivers were seriously injured or killed in 1962 and the AMA pushed the auto manufacturers to pull out to racing and impose a limit of 427 cubes or "7 liters" maximum on any engines produced. GM was the only one who publicly adhered to the AMA policy. Chrysler and especially FoMoCo told the AMA to take a hike. For 1963 the 7 liter rule was instituted by the FIA and that was the maximum displacment allowed for a long time in any stock or sports type race car.
1963 was also the launch of FoMoCo's famous Total Performance program and the rest is history!

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
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Stewart
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From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
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posted 02-18-2002 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart   Click Here to Email Stewart     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very nice read!! Thanks Alex!

Stewart

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ccode67
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From: douglasville,ga,usa
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 02-18-2002 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ccode67   Click Here to Email ccode67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
History lesson # F487
Thanks, Alex.

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Stuart MCA #48902
M&M #1091
67 stang 5 speed, soon to be 351W
91 f-150 xlt
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Moneymaker
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posted 02-18-2002 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
See it was worth the wait.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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