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Author Topic:   390 head replacment
Fastback Nation
Journeyman

Posts: 56
From: San Diego, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 08-12-2004 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback Nation   Click Here to Email Fastback Nation     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,

I got a 360 FE out of my friend's truck and am going to stroke it into it's 390 identity for my 67 mustang S-code shell. (I posted this on the Classic Mustang board and they suggested maybe someone here might know...) Problem is, the heads currently on the motor are drilled for exaust manifolds to bolt directly above and below the port. They do NOT have the alternate holes Ford drilled in later 'car heads' that are off to the side of the port to allow manifold installation after the motor is in the car (it's a tiiight squeaze!)
Questions:
Where can I find a set of stock heads with the correct bolt holes?
What casting numbers (date codes, etc.) should I look for that would indicate a head with enough material in the said location such that I could drill and tap them myself?
Or what would be a good replacement head that would break the bank? (I'm on a super tight budgest since most of the money is already going into the car itself).
Thanks!!

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 783
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-12-2004 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's the problem;

The earlier cylinder heads will not have enough material to redill (notice the boss on the left lower portion of the exhaust port). Now the question is, when FORD redid the molds on these heads (1966) (intermediates), did they also add material on the exhaust port in heads on large cars and pickup trucks. I am not certain on this.

I have some information stored that may answer this question, with hopefully casting numbers to look for.

If no one else answers the question, I will start reviewing that material(s). Otherwise, you will have to look for FE heads from 66/70 intermediates (FAIRLANE-COMET-MUSTANG-COUGAR) that came through with the 390/428/427.

428CJ would be nice to find but I doubt it cheaply. I had a 67 SHELBY GT-500 that had the 428PI. So there has to be a larger selection of heads out there than what was directly installed in the intermediates.

Very interesting question...

------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

[This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 08-12-2004).]

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 783
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-12-2004 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...sheesh...

[This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 08-12-2004).]

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Fastback Nation
Journeyman

Posts: 56
From: San Diego, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 08-13-2004 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback Nation   Click Here to Email Fastback Nation     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh OK, with the help of those pictures you put up (thanks!) I can see that a boss had to be added to allow the offset of the hole. Your question is interesting about whether or not the truck/large-car heads have the same bosses, but just not drilled and tapped. I'll take a look at my heads after I get home today and see what I find. What I find will mean nothing, however, until I can decipher the casting numbers to find their vintage.
Thanks!!

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 783
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-13-2004 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is how the casting numbers will work in your situation. The change was made in 1966. So if you see a head I.D. No. that reads C5AE 6090-? it will be a 1965/prior. C6 (C=Decade 60's/ Second Character is actual year of decade 5=1965 6=1966 and so on).

You would have to have a C6 head to at least have the chsnce of the extra boss whether it has been machined or not.

The last post I screwed up on was a reference to E-BAY. A guy has a fresh set of 428CJ heads starting bid $200.00.

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Fastback Nation
Journeyman

Posts: 56
From: San Diego, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 08-13-2004 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback Nation   Click Here to Email Fastback Nation     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So I just took a look at the heads and guess what? I could see the bosses down behind the manifold. I took off the exaust manifolds to press my luck further, but no, they weren't drilled and tapped. But having the bosses means I could either have them drilled by someone, or do it myself.
Questions:
How far in do the holes go thru the bosses, or are they all the way thru just like the over/under pair?
The end holes look tricky: they look miiiiighty close to the head bolts. How far do those go thru? I don't want to bust into another passage.
I'm thinking if I make the correct jig, I could mark the holes using a set of mustang/cougar manifolds (the ones I need), then drill them out with an end mill and tap them with a bottoming tap.
Wutcha think, can be too bad of a job? And if I screw up, it's not like I messed up a pair of CJ heads or anything, just dime-a-dozen truck heads.
Oh yeah, and I think you were right about the chance of there being bosses was being dependant on there being a C6 behind it from the factory: I bought this 360 along with the C6 that backed it from the factory. It came out of a truck.

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Fastback Nation
Journeyman

Posts: 56
From: San Diego, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 08-13-2004 09:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback Nation   Click Here to Email Fastback Nation     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OOOPS!! When I wrote my last post it was some time after I read the previous post. I forgot your reference to C6 was in reference to the date code not the trans behind it! Not sure why I thought that, doesn't make sense... : /

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 783
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-14-2004 02:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It makes sense that the bosses are there as it would have cost FORD a fortune to cast two different type heads in that period. As for drilling, I am not sure. Your method sounds correct taking the pattern off a set of exhaust manifolds. You sound pretty confident with your mention of an end mill.

Myself, I would have to rely on a competent machine shop to at least do the first set and then I might get up enough courage to do the second set...

Let me know how it turns out. It would be nice if you found a set of CJ manifolds.

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 783
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-14-2004 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 783
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-14-2004 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
-CJ Heads On E-Bay-

-CJ heads On E-Bay-

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Fastback Nation
Journeyman

Posts: 56
From: San Diego, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 08-16-2004 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback Nation   Click Here to Email Fastback Nation     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the help. I might just give drilling out the heads a shot. I'll just use a manifold gasket as a template to mark the holes. The hardest part will be making up a jig so I can do it right, making sure the hole goes in perpendicular to the mounting surface. Oh well, it'll be a fun little project. My car is so far from being ready to receive an engine that I've got plenty of time.
Hey, that's a great set of headers you posted! Are those the Hooker Pro Comp? They must have the ceramic coating 'cause they're perrrty (and expensive!). I can't remember, have you used a set on a 390 mustang before? I just wanna know whether it's an OK fit or whether I should just get a cheap set of stock manifolds.
Thanks.

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Fastback Nation
Journeyman

Posts: 56
From: San Diego, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 08-16-2004 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback Nation   Click Here to Email Fastback Nation     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Was browsing around and found that the pictures of those headers you posted were from Ford Power somethingerother. I emailed them and they told me they sell for $450 a set with the nickle plate and $650 for ceramic coat. Super nice, but super pricey too.
I would think, however, that the Hookers might be a better choice only because they're so much longer and the collector is way lower in the bay. I'd think that'd be easier to access when trying to hook up the rest of the exhaust. Anyone know? Maybe I'll just have to try one and post the results.

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 783
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-17-2004 07:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I posted that illustration mainly to show that most headers will come with the flanges drilled both ways. Those are TRI-Y's, medium street performance. SUPER COMP would be the best to go for all out or heavy street.

If you are on a budget, a set of CJ manifolds would be nice, otherwise the 390GT's.

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ccode67
Gearhead

Posts: 2659
From: douglasville,ga,usa
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 08-17-2004 08:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ccode67   Click Here to Email ccode67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those headers are from
www.fordpowertrain.com
I have theirs on my 351w 67 mustang, PERFECT.

------------------
Stuart
MCA #48902
M&M #1091
67 stang 5 speed, 351W,
Edelbrock Performer RPM package

my photo page

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