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Author Topic:   351CJ engine build up
RancheroSandraGayle
Gearhead

Posts: 197
From: Ft Bragg, NC USA
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 04-01-2005 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RancheroSandraGayle   Click Here to Email RancheroSandraGayle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm building a 74 351CJ trying to make 500+HP at the flywheel. I'm thinking about getting a set of Aussie heads from Powerheads. But I have never done any head work and was wondering what the difference between 7 and 10 degree retainers is, and what 2v intake and cam would be suitible for this application. I am looking to make the engine streetable, i plan to bore and stroke the block if possible. Anyinformation at all will be extremely helpful as this is my first high performance engine build

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-02-2005 04:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the engine is a true CJ, it will have 4V heads on it. They will be low compression (open) and to gain CR, you will either need to use the pre-1972 heads (hydraulic valvetrain) or use pop ups to achieve a better CR for a street motor.

Do you know exactly which engine it is? If it came through with a 2V carb, it is not a CJ.

------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

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RancheroSandraGayle
Gearhead

Posts: 197
From: Ft Bragg, NC USA
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 04-02-2005 06:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RancheroSandraGayle   Click Here to Email RancheroSandraGayle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the engine is a true CJ, it will have 4V heads on it. They will be low compression (open) and to gain CR, you will either need to use the pre-1972 heads (hydraulic valvetrain) or use pop ups to achieve a better CR for a street motor.
Do you know exactly which engine it is? If it came through with a 2V carb, it is not a CJ.

The engine is a Q-Code CJ in a 1974 Ranchero GT. But one of the previous owners had apparently changed out the heads, as I have a 2v head on the right bank and a M head on the left bank. So I'm going to get a pair of Aussie 2V heads from www.powerheads.com I'm thinking of running flattops as these are quench style heads. Going to have them ported and milled .020. But as I said being new to the power building stuff I have no Idea what angle retainers to get. 7 or 10 degree. And Being my first Cleaveland...well you know how different they are from a 302. Thanks, Biv

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-02-2005 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RancheroSandraGayle:

The engine is a Q-Code CJ in a 1974 Ranchero GT. But one of the previous owners had apparently changed out the heads, as I have a 2v head on the right bank and a M head on the left bank. So I'm going to get a pair of Aussie 2V heads from www.powerheads.com I'm thinking of running flattops as these are quench style heads. Going to have them ported and milled .020. But as I said being new to the power building stuff I have no Idea what angle retainers to get. 7 or 10 degree. And Being my first Cleaveland...well you know how different they are from a 302. Thanks, Biv[/B]


OK...I understand now.

The ten degrees are for Hi-RPM and spring pressure. Below is a tech page explaining them;

-COMP CAMS-

The Aussie heads are the way to go on a hot street 351C (in my opinion) if you can justify the cost.

Is this going to be a serious street or strip engine?

Does POWERHEADS recomend any particular intake for high flow useage?

------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-02-2005 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can a MODULATOR here move this post to another more appropriate forum where the poster will get more help?

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RancheroSandraGayle
Gearhead

Posts: 197
From: Ft Bragg, NC USA
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 04-02-2005 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RancheroSandraGayle   Click Here to Email RancheroSandraGayle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KULTULZ:
OK...I understand now.

The ten degrees are for Hi-RPM and spring pressure. Below is a tech page explaining them;

[b]-COMP CAMS-

The Aussie heads are the way to go on a hot street 351C (in my opinion) if you can justify the cost.

Is this going to be a serious street or strip engine?

Does POWERHEADS recomend any particular intake for high flow useage?

[/B]


any 2V port intakes will work. wiend xcellerator is the best US manifold available but will die out at 6300 rpm.................. Powerheads
This is the reply I got after asking them the best intake for the heads. But I still dunno if i want to run single or dual plane and what cam to go with it. Need the low end because the Ranchero weighs around 5500.
I'm going to make it a serious street engine and it may se a little bit of strip time. Eventually it may find its way into my 67 Cougar where it will pull the same hot street occasional strip duty but I don't forsee it in the near future. Thanks Biv

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-02-2005 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
But I still dunno if i want to run single or dual plane and what cam to go with it.

You definitely want the dual plane for the street. As for the cam selection, it is best to wait until you decide on all the internal parts you are going to use for assembly and then talk to TECH ADVISORS at COMP or CRANE.

Cam is also going to depend on valve/runner size/flow, whether roller or flat, hydraulic or solid, weigh of car...expected performance results, etc.. Then you choose the carb size from all of that.

I noticed you said flat tops, but the 335 SERIES use a pop-up style with valve reliefs because of the valve angles.

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RancheroSandraGayle
Gearhead

Posts: 197
From: Ft Bragg, NC USA
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 04-02-2005 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RancheroSandraGayle   Click Here to Email RancheroSandraGayle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KULTULZ:
You definitely want the dual plane for the street. As for the cam selection, it is best to wait until you decide on all the internal parts you are going to use for assembly and then talk to TECH ADVISORS at COMP or CRANE.

Cam is also going to depend on valve/runner size/flow, whether roller or flat, hydraulic or solid, weigh of car...expected performance results, etc.. Then you choose the carb size from all of that.

I noticed you said flat tops, but the 335 SERIES use a pop-up style with valve reliefs because of the valve angles.


Many thanks I learn something new about this engine every day. this is why I was going to run flattops by Dan Jones:
- Quench heads (2V Aussie or early 4V) are the best for performance. They
allow higher compression and make more power. Quench heads have a flat
area opposite the spark plug and an open area around the plug. As the
flat top piston rushes up toward the head, the area under the flat reduces
quicker than the area under the open part of the head. The result is the
mixture is forced at towards the plug. The resulting turbulence evens out
temperature and more completely burns the mixture. More power, better fuel
economy, and higher compression on the same octane.
But as I said I'm still learning the engine. Thanks Biv

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RancheroSandraGayle
Gearhead

Posts: 197
From: Ft Bragg, NC USA
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 04-02-2005 01:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RancheroSandraGayle   Click Here to Email RancheroSandraGayle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I missunderstood flattops in that article but now that I've thought about it I understand. Thanks Biv

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-02-2005 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These heads use the same pattern combustion chambers as the pre-1972 heads (open chamber began on some models 1972). You need to decide what CR you are going to run and what style piston you will have to use to get there, or a combination of milling and piston..

Premium street fuel should support 9.5 to 1 with iron heads. You may have to use a mixture of race and pump fuel or an additive much beyond that.

These are all the little details you are going to have to figure out (build sheet) before you start ordering parts.

Is the block out? You may have a four bolt block. If only two you may want to consider a cap girdle. It's the details you have to work out before opening the catalog.

I had a '73 RANCHERO with the CJ and that thing hauled. Now another consideration is the 429 came in the 72/73, so all being the same frame wise (72/79), a 460 will fit right in there and gives you gobs of torque and HP.

------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-02-2005 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
-HERE'S ANOTHER REFERENCE SOURCE-

Just take anything you read or hear with a grain of salt and try to balance it all out...

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RancheroSandraGayle
Gearhead

Posts: 197
From: Ft Bragg, NC USA
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 04-03-2005 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RancheroSandraGayle   Click Here to Email RancheroSandraGayle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KULTULZ:
[b]-HERE'S ANOTHER REFERENCE SOURCE-

Just take anything you read or hear with a grain of salt and try to balance it all out... [/B]


Many thanks again. Sad thing is i have a 429 sitting in my garage back home, but it think its going into a Galaxie. Thanks again Biv

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kwazykat
Moderator

Posts: 7447
From: ...a wonderful place to be.... orange county... NC!!!! M&M member #92 .... a blue-oval GRRL-deluxe.....
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-04-2005 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kwazykat   Click Here to Email kwazykat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KULTULZ:
.... move this post to another more appropriate forum where the poster will get more help?

sorry.... i have been down and out with bronchitis and missed this discussion.... apologies....

kk

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-05-2005 04:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kwazykat:

...sorry.... i have been down and out with bronchitis and missed this discussion.... apologies....

kk


That's OK. I just wanted him to get more feedback than mine...

He said he might put the engine in a 67 COUGAR so maybe that is why he posted down here.

Hope you feel better...

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