Brought to you in part by:

.


Shop Eastwood for all your Auto Restoration Needs!

  Mustangsandmore Forums
  Mercury Cougar
  351C running hot - automatic with stall

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   351C running hot - automatic with stall
KenB
Journeyman

Posts: 44
From: Regina, Sk, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-05-2001 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KenB   Click Here to Email KenB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wondering if anyone has opinions on this:

I have a 69 Cougar with relatively stock 351C-4V and C6 with 2500 stall. This is how the car was equipped when I bought it and haven't tore the engine down yet, maybe next year.

Car would run hot at idle with belt fan and no shroud (no surprise) therefore put on a flex-a-lite dual fan package. Seems to be working good however after a about 15-20 minutes of city driving where revs normally are 1500-2000 the car seems to conitnually build heat and fans run constantly. I've checked the rad temperature with infra-red gun and read up to 230 degrees. Car doesn't boil over but I would like to get it cooler as the cooling system seems maxed out. Have a 26" rad with a new 3 row core. Stock water pump (don't know condition of it), new hoses and 185 thermostat.

I am thinking my problem is the high stall convertor generating a lot of heat in stop and go driving. Thus thinking of external oil cooler in front of the rad and disconnecting the tranny completely from the rad. Thinking of a cooler about 17" x 10" x 1.5" (roughly 18,000 to 22,000 GVW).

Does anybody have thoughts on this? Is it possible the convertor is not a big issue and thus need to look at water pump or better rad? If the external tranny cooler is a good idea, any thoughts on size (bigger must be better in this case but how big is overkill), and is it a bad idea to disconnect completely from existing rad or do I connect in series? I am thinking of disconnecting completely to take some cooling load off the rad.

This problem has been bothering me for a while and just came up with the tranny cooler idea recently. Hoping for some feed back before I go barking up the wrong tree!

Ken

IP: Logged

ragtopjr
Gearhead

Posts: 2447
From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada.
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-05-2001 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ragtopjr   Click Here to Email ragtopjr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry I cant help you Ken(most of my experience is with stick cars)
But I want to welcome you to M & M from another Sk ford nut, Have you got pics of your car?What do you do?
I used to live in Regina and until july spent a lot of time in Regina with my job(hung out at A&W when i was there)

------------------
Ed
Heart mods:Trick High flow titanium valve ported & polished Listen close: "tic tic tic" No folks thats not a noisy lifter thats the sound of big flow!
1984 5.0L LX Conv 3600 lbs 13.41 at 101.89 SIR
http://ragtopjr.hypermart.net/
http://ragtop-racing.stangnet.com/
http://mbmustangs.tripod.com/index.htm

IP: Logged

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 37258
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 05-05-2001 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M. I agree with you, I bet a good amount of heat is coming from the stall converter. Converter companies always recommend transmission coolers with stall converters. I would buy the largest one I could fit, and plumb it in series.

------------------
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC {Wife's car...}
All Fords since 1977

IP: Logged

KenB
Journeyman

Posts: 44
From: Regina, Sk, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-05-2001 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KenB   Click Here to Email KenB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve: Thanks, I wish I knew about this site years ago! There is a lot of knowledge floating around here. Good tip on the convertor companies - I am going to check out a few sites for info.

Ed: So you are one of those guys hanging out at Albert and Avonhurst eh? I drive by there quite often when heading out to see friends as I usually take Avonhurst. This summer I will take some more pictures, lost them when my hard drive crapped out. Car is white with black stripes with scoop and rear spoiler, similar to a 70 Eliminator. I drive it quite a bit in summer so you probably seen it, used to have an aqua colored one in Regina which I drove from 87-93 - took it apart and never got it back together (time is hard to come by). Went out and bought the white one since they are getting scarce around here.

I am an electrical engineering tech by trade, help at the farm at Southey and tinker on my toys. Red 76 Power Wagon short box with a 440 that is tweaked more than the Cougar is my other toy - doesn't see much road time, just in and out of sloughs and snow in the winter. Tranny (auto) piled up again on it 6 weeks ago which I still need to fix- I am pretty rough on it though. Ford first, Dodge next.

Ken

IP: Logged

ragtopjr
Gearhead

Posts: 2447
From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada.
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-05-2001 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ragtopjr   Click Here to Email ragtopjr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I worked for Interstate Batteries, I drove thatBig green Freightliner for them that is what I would have had at A&W although I know a lot of the big dogs from the track and just from hanging around.
I stopped working in july of last year and have not been to Regina since, the aqua coloored one does sound familiar, I lived in Regina from 87-89

------------------
Ed
Heart mods:Trick High flow titanium valve ported & polished Listen close: "tic tic tic" No folks thats not a noisy lifter thats the sound of big flow!
1984 5.0L LX Conv 3600 lbs 13.41 at 101.89 SIR
http://ragtopjr.hypermart.net/
http://ragtop-racing.stangnet.com/
http://mbmustangs.tripod.com/index.htm

IP: Logged

perk
Gearhead

Posts: 339
From: Staley,nc
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 05-06-2001 02:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for perk   Click Here to Email perk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi ken and welcome to M&M.
Another thing to look at is to make sure you have the brass insert under your thermostat.Also,I was running a 185 stat and
our car ran hotter than it does now.I know in my 70 stang,stock was 195.And one more thing,I was told to make sure when buying a new stat,to make sure they give you one for a 351c and not a 351w.There seems to be a differance in them.?

perk

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 05-07-2001 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M KenB. ! A high capacity radiator and a large trans cooler will work wonders. Also make certain to eliminate the cooler lines from the radiator and run them directly into the trans coller as that will remove much heat and cooling capacity from the engine.

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

IP: Logged

MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 332
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 05-07-2001 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex, I had the same problem with my Cleveland even before the mods I am fixing to have finished...I will be running a aluminum radiator this time with no provisioning for the C-6 auto trans with 3500 stall and 3.89s that I am using. Question is, is there such a thing as too big of a tranny cooler? This will be seeing mostly street duty so the heat will play a big factor. also, I have 2 electric fans up front in a push configuration that take up most all of the surface area in the front of the radiator, should the trans cooler be spaced a bit away from the back of the radiator? also, would it be worth it to put a small third fan in a pull configuration on the back side of the tranny cooler? sorry for so many questions I just do not want to overheat this new motor or trans...
Thanks,
Sean.

IP: Logged

DidgeyTrucker
Gearhead

Posts: 1112
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
Registered: Oct 99

posted 05-07-2001 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DidgeyTrucker   Click Here to Email DidgeyTrucker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you decide to disconnect the transmission lines from the radiator and use an external cooler only, MAKE SURE THE COOLER IS DESIGNED AS A STAND ALONE COOLER! Auxiliary coolers are not designed to work all by themselves.
I found that out the hard way. I had a trans temp guage mounted in the line from the transmission in about 1000 feet the temp guage was peaked. I eased back to the garage and hooked the cooler in series with radiator and never had another problem.
A friend just bought a truck with an automatic that replaced a manual trans. The auxiliary cooler wasn't enough and he had to drive backwards about three miles to his shop!

IP: Logged

KenB
Journeyman

Posts: 44
From: Regina, Sk, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-07-2001 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KenB   Click Here to Email KenB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the thoughts guys, been away working for a few days, here is my latest:

Looks like my problem is going to get taken care of the expensive way - going to start working on a 5 speed.

Had the car out a few more times since doing my tweaking over the winter and found that the trans is now slipping when I lay into it and hit around 4000 rpm at WOT. I'm guessing this is because the engine is hitting peak torque. Shifts fine and no problem at lower revs.

Had a 5 speed on the floor for a lot of years now, was going to put it in my old car. Have the late model bell housing, just need to find the clutch/brake pedal and bracket. I think I'll go with a cable clutch from DB Performance or check out Windsor Fox. It's an expensive alternative but its been at the top of my modification list for 12 years now. Hopefully I can find the pedals in a few weeks so that I can then order the rest of the parts and still get a few good months of driving in up here.

Ken

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 05-08-2001 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most REAL FAST automatic transmission race cars use no cooler at all these days. If you follow my instructions and get a "high capacity" trans cooler you will be fine WITHOUT using the radiator and the engine will run much cooler. No such thing as TOO big a trans cooler in my oppinion. A third fan would be over kill.

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Mustangsandmore Front Page

Copyright 2004, Steve LaRiviere. All Rights Reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

[Build a free Mustangsandmore.ws Home Page!]

[About M&M][Acronyms][Calendar][Chat][Classifieds] [Members' Pics]

[M&M Conventions] [M&M Mug Shots]

[ Mustangsandmore.com Bookstore] [ Smokin' Fords] [Tech Articles]