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Author
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Topic: 69 Cougar ???????
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Mustang66
Journeyman Posts: 48
From: Tuttle Okla
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 08-14-2002 01:03 PM
   
Did ford put a 351C in a 69 cougar convertable? I believe its a RX7 ------------------
66 coupe 351W C-6 100hp NOS
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tomslo
Gearhead Posts: 319
From: Jefferson City, MO
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-14-2002 01:54 PM
The 351 in 69 would have been a Windsor. Somebody else could have put in the cleveland.
Tom
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2002 F350 4x4, True Blue, v10 Auto, 4.30LS, 35" BFG's
1991 Mustang LX 5.0L, AOD *need to sell*
1970 Cougar, 351C-4v, C6
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69Cat
Journeyman Posts: 28
From: Sask., Canada
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 08-14-2002 06:13 PM
My 69 XR7 also has a 351C-4V. I haven't been able to prove whether it is original or not. I know the engine was rebuilt at 60,000 miles and have the work order for it but do not know if at the time a 351W-4V came out of the car and the 351C went in. Door tag is M-code (351-4V). All casting codes on the Cleveland are 1970. My car was built near the end of 69. I have read a number of places where people claim some 351C's were put in cars at the end of 1969 but others say thats not true. Maybe a warranty problem occurred with mine and a 351C went into the car in place of a 351W. I don't know, just a thought. I do know that I bought my car with a C6 and the original tranny was an FMX so obviously someone did some powertrain swapping, likely the 351C went in at the same time as the C6. Stories of 351C going into 1969 cars at the assembly plants, whether true or not, have made me curious otherwise I would say no way is it original, but that doesn't help you at all. Oh well,
Ken
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Mustang66
Journeyman Posts: 48
From: Tuttle Okla
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 08-15-2002 02:20 PM
Thanks for your help.My friend has one and we are trying to find out.It has a 351-c in it and he trying to sell it and the 2 people that have looked at it said its not original so they don't want it.We have never done any work on the car.My friends dad owned it before him and he can't remember his dad ever changeing anything on it.OH Well,Thanks for your help. Robert
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 542
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 08-15-2002 03:54 PM
Ford (and I think other manufacturers) often make unofficial changes in installed parts. It is very possible that they ran out of 351W engines near the end of the model run and just substituted 351C engines to fill the orders without making more 351W engines. If you check the build dates for the cars and find that they were built near the end of the model run, it is a probability.Sometimes if you look in replacement parts catalogs they will have availability listings that do not appear in the factory publications. The aftermarket parts suppliers have to provide parts that fit so their information is often the most accurate. John
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1311
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 08-16-2002 02:40 AM
Considering all the casting Numbers on the 351C are 1970 dates, pretty much rules out being original. I`ve owned 2 70 Mustangs with 351C 4V & automatics back when the cars were fairly new, & they both had FMX`s. It is pretty much guaranteed that some time back, the 351C & C6 were swapped into the 69.Considering how many differances there are between a W & a Cleveland, it just doesn`t make sense that Ford would "run out" of the Windsor, & substitute a 351C. Exhaust manifolds, accesory brackets, wiring for senders,etc,are all different, not very likely at all.------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed 10.20@130mph
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed
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JCQuinn@work
Gearhead Posts: 542
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 08-16-2002 09:47 AM
Rory
Engines aren't assembled in the car. They are installed as a completly assembled unit. I really don't know how accurate casting dates are but I have sold lots of parts that shouldn't have been needed on the car going by the manufactureres information. In other words the factory did substitutuions all the time. I am not talking about old cars, I am talking about odd parts when the cars were nearly new. In 67 I bought a brand new K-code Mustang that had some of the wrong parts.John
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69Cat
Journeyman Posts: 28
From: Sask., Canada
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 08-16-2002 03:30 PM
I am leaning to the view that the engines are original, but it is not a big deal to me one way or another. As I said, all my engine casting codes that I have seen are 1970, if they were say 71, 72 or 73 then no doubt the engine was replaced. But it is not possible that the Cleveland offered in 1970 magically started rolling out of the foundries on Jan 1, 1970 to hit the assembly plants the first week of January. And when exactly would a 1970 model year start coming off the line? Maybe late 1969? If so wouldn't the 351C be there on the floor for install in that 1970 car? I figure there is truth to Clevelands (and likely thousands of other parts/assemblies) being installed earlier than they should have been. I beleive my car was assembled in Oct/69 but I will have to check. I wonder when the Clevelands were actually cast. I would say they started casting the blocks, heads, etc and assembling complete engines well before Jan 1, 1970 but still carry the D0 part number. Otherwise would not the 351C be available till say early spring of 1970. Haven't had the engine out yet so haven't checked block casting #. Makes for interesting conversation right now, at some point in the future I will verify whether or not mine is authentic. Ken
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1311
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 08-16-2002 10:20 PM
Ken, by Oct. 69, the 70 model production was already well under way. If your 69 still has the original door tag on the drivers door, it will show the scheduled build date. Unfortunatly, starting in 1970, Ford switched to a paper label with a clear cover over it for the door VIN, which was easily damaged. Also starting with 70, only the month & year of the date was put on the label.On my 70 Mach 1, which was the 10038 th 70 Mustang built, the date code was 09/69, which was sometime in Sept. I don`t know when the exact date for model year change over was, but I would think likely by August. Casting numbers are one thing, but the actual casting DATE castings are something different again. If your engine has casting dates anytime after, say, early Sept., there is no way that parts cast AFTER your cars build date, could be original, right? Personally, I have never seen a 69 that could be proven to have come with a 351C engine, 2 or 4V. How long have you owned your car? An awful lot can happen in over 30 years!------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed 10.20@130mph
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed
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69Cat
Journeyman Posts: 28
From: Sask., Canada
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 08-17-2002 11:30 AM
Thanks for the info Rory, interesting to know that perhaps your 70 is a little older than my 69.You are right that the date codes I am looking at I should refer to as casting codes. I understand that there should be an actual date code on the block somewhere, that would be the best chance to know if my engine is original but then again it could just be coincidence that someone put a 351C in the car with what seems like the proper date code. My car build date is 24J (24th Sept), serial is 507409. Therefore mine is the 7409th produced, 7409th XR7 I guess. Steel plate door tag as a 69 will have. Also, I have only owned my car for about 5 years now, I know that the tranny was not original and that the rear end has been worked on or replaced entirely. So the motor? Yes there were mods to it when I got the car, diffinitely not in stock trim so perhaps a replacement. Ken
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69Cat
Journeyman Posts: 28
From: Sask., Canada
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 08-18-2002 01:40 AM
Just realized that my car was built sept 24 of 1968. I was talking with some other guys today who say that new model years started Sept 1. Therefore no possibility of my 351C being original.Ken
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Mustang66
Journeyman Posts: 48
From: Tuttle Okla
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-03-2002 10:53 AM
I have the door tag code's and vin numbers if someone can help decode them.
Body 76B
Color T
Trim 6A
Date 25K
DSO-84
Ax 6
Tran 5
The Vin number is 9F94M516297
Any information would be great thanks agian.Robert------------------
66 coupe 351W C-6 100hp NOS [This message has been edited by Mustang66 (edited 09-03-2002).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-04-2002 01:15 PM
Body = Convert
Color = Candy Apple Red
Trim = Black
Date = 25th October
DSO = Home office reserve (probably a company service vehicle)
Axel = 3.00 open
Trans = 4 speed wide ratio
Engine code "M" = 351W 4v 290 HP  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
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Mustang66
Journeyman Posts: 48
From: Tuttle Okla
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-05-2002 02:30 PM
Thanks agian Alex ------------------
66 coupe 351W C-6 100hp NOS
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 21725
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-05-2002 03:39 PM
Agian? 
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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA/MCA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
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Mustang66
Journeyman Posts: 48
From: Tuttle Okla
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-17-2002 02:48 PM
I posted on the classic mustang and you answered me there to. Thank you again!!! Robert------------------
66 coupe 351W C-6 100hp NOS
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