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Author Topic:   Speed Density and B303 cam
Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-19-2005 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
got a buddy with a SD 5L that he stabbed a B303 into, the car won't stay idling. wondering about possible solutions for him. He asked around here and he'd been told that he has to switch to a mass air system or swap out his computer to run it, but he thinks he'd just toss in the stock cam if it came down to that.

Base timing is at 16, havn't checked with a vaccum gague to see how much suck he has, but wondering about a vaccum leak as well.

If it just comes down to not having enough vaccum, would something like a vaccum canister or the like allow him to run it, or are they just not compatable with each other.

Thanks for the help
Dubz

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quick50stng
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: Bethlehem,GA. USA
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 04-19-2005 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for quick50stng   Click Here to Email quick50stng     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He needs to break down and complete the mass air conversion. The SD is very limited and doesn't like to support many bolt on items. The mass air will make the current upgade and future upgrades managable.

As far as the vaccum cannister goes it would further complicate matters and is not a good option.

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-19-2005 01:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Allrighty, i'll tell him

thanks for the quick reply

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-20-2005 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would do some more checking before running out and spending a bunch of money on parts that may not be neccesary.
I have never had to convert a SD to MA after a B-303 installation.
Just an FYI

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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N266fords
Gearhead

Posts: 1652
From: Sierra Vista ,Az USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 04-20-2005 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for N266fords   Click Here to Email N266fords     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My buddy has a lightning with a blower and methenal injection with a speed density set up. Its not the speed density thats giving you trouble. he also has an 89 crown vic like mine with a big roller cam and 24 lb injectors with the speed denisity set up. No problems there execpt avoid gettiing pulled over lol..
Bruce

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-20-2005 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm sure he'll be glad to hear it might not be the sd.

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-21-2005 04:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, here is some more info on the car.

Bored over to a 306 ci
Ported and polished stock heads
frpp B303 cam
accel plug wires/cap/rotor/coil
ngk g force platnium plugs
mac shorty headers
cold air intake
stock intake manifold

he tried backing off the timing some, to 12-14 but that didn't seem to help the problem. When he did this he adjusted the intake butterfly (not sure what it's called) to bring idle speed back up to around 900rpm.

took a multi-meter to the plug wires to see how they were, and got readings at 20k ohms which to me seems high. Also i remember some people not liking the platinum plugs, not sure for what application or for what reason. Pulled a few plugs and they looked spot on.

vaccum was around 14 inches at idle, then when the car tries to choke out and die it drops, but if the car catches and stays running it will hop back up. so every once and a while it blips down, and then hops up. (not sure how much vaccum a stock car has at idle)

Threw a code reader on the car, and got a few codes. But all the codes were related to the missing emissions equipment, or so we think.

Key on Engine off (KOEO)
81 air diverter solenoid fault, intake air control
circuit fault/air injection diverter

82 air diverter solenoid circuit fault or supercharger
bypass circuit fault\

Key on Engine Running (KOER)
21 coolant temp sensor out of specified range or ECT
out of range

44 Thermactor air system fault

94 Air diverter solenoid circuit fault

Wondering if i were to get a sound clip and post it if someone would be able to diagnose what we should be looking at.

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quick50stng
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: Bethlehem,GA. USA
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 04-21-2005 08:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for quick50stng   Click Here to Email quick50stng     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry for the confusion Dubz. Looks like these guys tore my credibility a new one

Anyway your question still hasn't been answered. So keep giving the M&M guru's more specs and conditions of the car and they will narrow the problem down for you.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-21-2005 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Check TPS voltage value and range for starters.


Should be around 1.0 or a bit less.


IS the EGR still functional?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-21-2005 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by quick50stng:
Sorry for the confusion Dubz. Looks like these guys tore my credibility a new one

Anyway your question still hasn't been answered. So keep giving the M&M guru's more specs and conditions of the car and they will narrow the problem down for you.



NO butt tearing intended.
As always, thanks for your input.
I have installed a bunch of these cams in SD cars over the years and never had an idle issue with the cam, but.....I have had vacuum leaks, bad electrical connections, bad fuel pressure regulators and a host of other problems that caused similar poor idle problems.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-22-2005 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Today we checked for vaccum leaks, found the car ran better WITH a leak (as it raises the idle rpms which eliminates/masks the problem), checked each line, and none appear to be leaking at all.

The EGR is still connected, not sure if it's functional or not. He would like to remove it/disable it if possible.

Car runs strong, and seems to be fine as long as it's not idling. And ocassinally it will idle fine for a while, then start to choke, no difference if it is warm or cold.

He's going to check the fuel pressure tommorow to see if it's a regulator problem, but he's starting to get discouraged.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-22-2005 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Remove the EGR and make a plate for it.
That may be your problem as it may be stuck.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1890
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 04-23-2005 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Remove the EGR and make a plate for it.
That may be your problem as it may be stuck.


what kind of plate would you need to make?

[This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 04-23-2005).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-23-2005 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Simple plate out of 1/8 or 3/16 steel or aluminum would work fine.
Use the EGR as as template.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

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