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Author Topic:   Convertible Top Problems
DavidH
Journeyman

Posts: 4
From: Weston, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 06-19-2002 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DavidH   Click Here to Email DavidH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just bought a '90 LX Vert, the top doesn't work. When I push the switch either in or out, I can hear the two relays click in the back. If I jump the top motor directly to the battery, the top works perfectly!! Does anyone have any ideas what this could be? I tested the wires going to the relays and out of the relays, there doesn't seem to be any power at all. I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you very much :-)

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GTRocks
Gearhead

Posts: 1810
From: Lusby, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-19-2002 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GTRocks   Click Here to Email GTRocks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When you say that you tested the power going into the relays, are you testing the line from the battery, or from the switch? The lines coming from the battery should always be hot once a ground is available to it. The lines from the switch would only show voltage when the switch is thrown. If you are hearing the relays click then I would think that the lines from the switch are ok. I would suspect either a bad ground or a loose connection on the power lines (read larger cables) from the battery. Any chance you blew a fuse?

And, oh by the way, welcome to M&M!!!

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Topless88
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: Marietta, GA, USof A
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 06-19-2002 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Topless88   Click Here to Email Topless88     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK. Back to basics. If you hear the realys clicking, you have power from the switch. If you can jump the motor then that works. What happens when you hit the switch? Does the motor turn (make noise?) If all that happens, check the fluid the pump. If the relays work and the pump is making noise, the problem has to be in the hydraulic fluid that makes the pistons move. (This is a closed system. If you're missing fluid it is leaking somewhere.) Write again. I need more info.

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DavidH
Journeyman

Posts: 4
From: Weston, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 06-19-2002 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DavidH   Click Here to Email DavidH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I know that it is not a problem with the motor, or the fluid, because it works perfectly when I run the battery right to it. I checked all of the fuses in the box, and they all seem to be working fine. I don't know if there are any inline fuses. There is supposed to be a self-resetting breaker behing the dash for the top motor. I assumed that it is working just because the relays are clicking. If there was a blown fuse would the relays still click? Can the relays be broken even if they are still clicking? When I say I checked the power I checked what I think is the power running into the relay by using a circuit tester plug into a gound. There are two larger gauge wire running into the relay(2 smaller I assume are for the switch) one goes directly to the motor so I assumed the other is power. Also when I try to stick a paperclip between the power and the line going to the motor to bypass the relay nothing happens. I am new at this, so I am really confused. Thanks for the help :-)

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Boss302
Gearhead

Posts: 310
From: Coleman, Wisconsin
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 06-19-2002 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss302   Click Here to Email Boss302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'm glad i don't have a convertible.

this is too confusing for me!!!!

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Topless88
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: Marietta, GA, USof A
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 06-20-2002 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Topless88   Click Here to Email Topless88     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SO the pump works when it's getting power. Try disconnecting the wire that runs to the pump from the relays. Use a meter to ensure you're getting 12 volts from the relays to the pump. Hook the meter to one of the wires (mine are red and yellow.) and to the ground that the pump is using (a black wire to a screw or bolt next to the pump.) Have a partner hit the switch on the dash. (Both ways, one is up, one is down.) You should read at least 12 volts. What we're testing is to ensure the relays are really working, not just making noise. No power from the realys means you have to check to enusre yo have power to the relays. If you have power from the switch to the relays (sounds like it as they click) but not to the pump then relay(s) are bad. I've never had both go at the same time, but it could happen. Good luck. And by the way, if it's not a convertible, it's not a sports car.

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GTRocks
Gearhead

Posts: 1810
From: Lusby, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-20-2002 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GTRocks   Click Here to Email GTRocks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The paperclip test you ran is faulty. It shouldn't have done anything. Understand that there are typically (I wish I had a wiring diagram for the top) 4 wires to a relay. Two are larger gauge, two smaller. The two smaller lines are from the switch at the dash. One is positive, the other is the ground lead. Ideally, when you hit the switch at the dash, a small current is applied to the relay via the small gauge wires. If this switch is operating correctly, you will hear the relay click. The relay just senses that the power was applied from the dash switch and then internally completes the circuit for the two larger gauge wires which carry a larger current. So by putting a paperclip from the small gauge wire to the larger gauge wire, you aren't sending enough current to drive the motor. What you'd want to do is connect a larger, and insulated cable between the two larger gauge wires where they are each connected to the relay. This will bypass the relay and tell you if those lines are good. If that works the motor, then the relay isn't making a good connection. Then you'd have to put an ammeter across the two smaller wires to ensure that the dash switch is actually allowing current to the relay. You'd want to put the ammeter across the two smaller gauge hubs on the relay. If it shows amperage, your dash switch is working. I'm assuming that the dash switch is working since you say you hear the relays. Typically, if you hear the relays, they are working. Not always, but usually.

Try those tests and see what you get.

Good luck!

Dave

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Stewart
Moderator

Posts: 8334
From: Monterey, CA Mustangsandmore Member #437
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 06-20-2002 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stewart   Click Here to Email Stewart     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Excellent! I actually understood that, Dave! Thanks!

Stewart

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DavidH
Journeyman

Posts: 4
From: Weston, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 06-20-2002 07:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DavidH   Click Here to Email DavidH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the help!! :-) I just got it working today. It turns out the power running to the relays was bad, there is supposed to be a self-resetting breaker somewhere in the dashboard, it must have broken. I gave up looking for the breaker and just ran a new line from the battery and spliced it into the power going to the relays. It works perfectly now :-)

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