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Author
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Topic: beefy t5?
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kewljay223
Gearhead Posts: 464
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 10-16-2006 08:51 PM
   
hey! i am planning on dropping a 418 stroker in my 69 mach within the next couple months. it is going to be pushin around 550 -600 horses. right now i have a very mildy built cleveland with a t5 behind it. i know t5's can handle up to 300hp but my new powerplant will be producing almost twice that. where can i go to get a new one or the internals that can handle that kind of power? i have never been inside a tranny before but i am pretty confident i can rubuild one myself if i have the propper instructions. i also do not want to get a tko because i will have to modify the tunnel so i would like to just use my t5. anybody know where i can shop around to get the best price? i was hoping under 2k for a new tranny or less for the gears/ parts and i can do it myself.... thanks a lot.
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Mooney
Gearhead Posts: 2338
From: Marietta, Ga
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 10-16-2006 10:58 PM
I've heard great things about G-Force and their T-5's.. when I get the funds thats what i'll be going for.
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1881
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-17-2006 12:11 AM
We have a guy up here who lives on Vancouver Island, he races a 65 Comet Caliente with a healthy 331 ci stroker 302 that runs low 11`s with a GForce built T5.He has been racing the same car since 1967 (he`s 69 years old!!), and he drives it from Victoria, onto the ferry, and then from Delta to Mission (well over 1 hour drive from the ferry terminal) and he used to run a Toploader 4 speed and 4.88 gears! Not ideal for the freeway, so about 2 years ago, he ordered the GForce T5, with the taller (but weaker) .50 overdrive, and swapped in a set of 5.14`s in the 9". He says it is so much nicer now, with the overdrive, and so far, he has had no breakage with this T5.He launches at 5500 rpm, and has carried the front tires 1 1/2 feet on the launch. I think his best 60 foot so far is 1.51, with a 11.28ET. He said his engine made just over 500 HP on the engine dyno. His car is not lightened at all, still has the full interior plus roll bar, even has steel rims all around.The car weighs about 3200 lbs. He is really happy with the GForce T5, but I seeem to recalll it was fairly pricey. Something to consider though.------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected] 1.32 60 foot
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA M/Stock 302 5speed. [email protected] 1.63 60 foot
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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buening
Gearhead Posts: 316
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 10-17-2006 03:26 PM
Who told you that you will have to modify the trans tunnel for the TKO? Check out ModernDriveline for support and parts. Only the 65-66 mustang owners have to modify the trans tunnel, the later years have a large enough tunnel for the TKO trans. I wouldn't even think about putting a T5 behind that much motor. Sure the upgraded G Force gears could handle the power but the stock trans housing will not. I'd opt for a TKO600. Dark Horse Performance also sells these and has great customer support.Not sure if you are a member of www.vintage-mustang.com but there are some 69 owners on there that have the TKO600 behind their 408 strokers and love the trans. No modifications needed. I'm envious of Mod9 who has a 427w stroker with a T56 6-speed behind it 
------------------
1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang [This message has been edited by buening (edited 10-17-2006).]
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kewljay223
Gearhead Posts: 464
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 10-18-2006 07:26 PM
thanks for the darkhorse idea. never heard of them but looks like they got some good trannys to choose from for alright prices. and i read somewhere online that the tunnel had to be modified but it did not specify the years. i just assumed it was for all the years... so your sure it doesnt have to be modiefied cuz if not, that might be the path i wanna go down if i cant do the t5 cheaper.and rory, do you know where he got the t5 from? thanks for the replies guys.
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1881
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-19-2006 12:17 PM
Bill ordered his T5 directly from G Force.(717)202-8367------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected] 1.32 60 foot
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA M/Stock 302 5speed. [email protected] 1.63 60 foot
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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buening
Gearhead Posts: 316
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 10-19-2006 01:47 PM
There are multiple guys running the TKO trans in the later year cars. The mustangs came from the factory with a 3? driveline angle. This is the angle difference between the transmission and the rear axle horizontal drive planes. The crossmembers will drop the transmission a wee bit lower than the factory toploaders are. Most have measured 5? driveline angle, which is perfectly fine unless you are NASCARing your car and running 10k rpms constantly. I've attached a few discussions from forums on this topic. Most people that are arguing are owners of 65-66 cars, which have much smaller transmission tunnels. Our cars were made to fit the large C6 trans in there, so ours had to have a larger tunnel. Hope this helps!!! Oh, keep an eye on ebay cause DarkHorse sells complete conversion kits with everything needed to convert from an Auto to a TKO (minus clutch pedal which are not reproduced).http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=526292&highlight=TKO http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=606238&highlight=TKO And a link for someone questioning the strength of a T5 (note the reply by Hack regarding case strength) http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=613290&highlight=TKO
I'm not saying that a G force T5 won't work, but we are talking some pretty high torque numbers (especially since it is a stroker). If we were in the 400-450 range than i'd recommend either the G force or the TKO, but if you are gonna be pushing 600 horses (which in a stroker normally has more torque than hp) i would be more comfortable with a TKO behind there. You can talk with G force though, but i think those transmissions are pushing $2000-2500, whereas the TKOs are around $1500-2000.
From the G Force website "it can be assumed that with the available upgraded mainshaft, the G-Force T-5 kit will handle roughly 600 hp or 500 ft-lb. or torque in a 3300 lb. vehicle running drag radials at the track with a moderate clutch upgrade."
So basically you are at their upper limit on hp but your torque will be over the limit (which torque is what kills a trans, not the hp). This is assuming you reach the 550-600hp mark. I noticed you can buy and upgraded main case, but this adds more to your costs. ------------------
1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3190
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 10-19-2006 02:24 PM
I'm sorry, Guys, maybe I'm missing out,
,,,but I am just REALLY having a hard time picturing anyone running a streetable hot rod with a true 550-600HP w/500+ ft-lb. of torque doing a whole lot of cruising on the interstate - at least so much so that he'd feel that he needed a 5th or even 6th OD gear. Rory,
You mentioned that you know a fella running a stroked 302, T5, and 5.14 gears. Unless he changed the 2.94 ratio 1st gear (in most GForce T5s) in his tranny, he'd be revved up so quickly that he might even be banging 2nd gear BEFORE he even passes the 60' eyes... or does he launch it in 2nd gear? Ryan
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1881
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-19-2006 04:36 PM
The guy with the Comet does have the G Force aftermarket case on his T5.
Ryan, I really have to agree with you as for the 600 HP numbers. I think too many people believe all this computer dyno program stuff, and car magazine HP numbers. The import guys are the worst. I can`t say how many local rice racers have 800-900 HP Toyota Supras, or Skylines, etc, yet none of them can get out of the 12`s at the dragstrip!!Unless a Toyota Supra is 8000 lbs, I think somebody is a bit optimistic! A 3300 lb car with 600 REAL HP should be a true 9 second car, but I often see these streetable "600HP" cars at the track, running in the mid 12 to high 11 second range. Something certainly doesn`t compute! As for the Comets T5, since he needs to drive over an hour on the freeway to get to the dragstrip, the .50 OD of his G Force T5 works very well for him.The engine in his Comet made just over 500 HP on a proper engine dyno,has ported AFR aluminum heads, a fairly large solid roller cam, and 11.4 compression, so it`s not the most streetable combo out there, but it seems to make him happy. and As for the gearing, I`m not sure what his 1 rst gear ratio is, but I`m pretty sure he said it was in the 2.9 range. Yeah, you don`t stay in low gear very long, but it helps get things moving. By the way, my 85 Mustang 302 Stocker has a 3.19 low gear in the Jerico, along with 5.14`s, so I am very familiar with shifting 1-2 before the 60 foot clocks!------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected] 1.32 60 foot
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA M/Stock 302 5speed. [email protected] 1.63 60 foot
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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kewljay223
Gearhead Posts: 464
From: Long Beach, California
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 10-19-2006 09:25 PM
well i guess it sounds like the tko is what everybody is leaning towards. and if i can find one for 1500, that would be awesome. i guess i will start searching around for them. do you guys know any other place other than darkhorse that sells them so i can price them all? thanks again. this helpes out a lot
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3190
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 10-20-2006 08:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rory McNeil:
Yeah, you don`t stay in low gear very long, but it helps get things moving. ...my 85 Mustang 302 Stocker has a 3.19 low gear in the Jerico, along with 5.14`s, so I am very familiar with shifting 1-2 before the 60 foot clocks!
WHEW!!! A 16.40 launch ratio!!
I'd say you ARE busy gear-jammin' in that ride, Rory!!   (Rory, are your slick side walls supposed to go flat when you launch?!  )
kewljay223,
Do like Rory - step up to a Jerico! It'll fit without any problems and it'll take all you can give it! I'm not too sure if you'll be able to find one for $1500, but realize they ARE bullet-proof!
http://www.jericoperformance.com/jerico.html Good Luck!
Ryan
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