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  hard start, dieseling (sp?)

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Author Topic:   hard start, dieseling (sp?)
honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 763
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 10-13-2006 10:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst   Click Here to Email honeyburst     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ok....a couple of issues that may or may not be connected. I'm having a REALLY hard time starting the '73.....I've adjusted the ignition switch multiple times and when I think I've got it where it's working, it goes back to doing the same thing. I turn the key, fully, and it just spins (cranks)...if I slowly let off the key, it'll "catch" and start....about if the key was 7/8ths turned.....make sense ???.....IF I adjust the switch to where it starts with the key fully engaged, I can't get the transmission out of park.

It USED to crank and start with just a bump of the key, full turn anything (I miss that !!! )

also........what are the most likely causes for dieseling (engine running after it's been turned off).....too rich ?, timing too far advanced ?, too retarded ???

Thanks in advance,
Bryan

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Without life there could be no music, but without music, there can be no life.
1973 Convertible, 1965 A Code 4spd coupe, Past: 1969 GT, 1967 6cyl coupe, 1968 coupe
Two Rivers Ford, Parts Dept., Nashville, TN
www.geocities.com/littlewhitecoupe
www.geocities.com/jezebeldream
www.geocities.com/my73conv

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buening
Gearhead

Posts: 316
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 10-13-2006 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for buening   Click Here to Email buening     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Engine run-on is commonly cause by too high of idle rpms. Mine win suffer from run-on at idle rpms above 900. Pretty sure too much timing will cause it also.

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1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang

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honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 763
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 10-13-2006 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst   Click Here to Email honeyburst     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
idling right now at around 4-500

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mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 1297
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 10-13-2006 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with buening on what can cause run on...I'm not that famiar with the 71-73 mustangs and I'm a little curious how you can adjust the ignition key?..Is it in the column with a rod??..It sounds as though you might be getting power to the starter when cranking but not getting power to the ignition unless you turn the key back a hair?..If this is true maybe you also aren't quite killing all the spark when you shut it off??Sounds like something is maybe worn out.

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68 J-Code,Sprint,306 4 speed,4.11s [email protected]
66 coupe 289 4 speed, 3.20 cruiser http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy.html http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy2.html

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Dave Gibson
Moderator

Posts: 10570
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99

posted 10-13-2006 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Gibson   Click Here to Email Dave Gibson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would start by replacing your ignition switch. Seams to be pretty worn.

Your idle seams to be a little low. Both of our stangs idle around 800 to 1,000 rpm.

Dave & Terri

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'65 Mustang Fastback
'66 Mustang Coupe
'02 Explorer XLT
Common sense isn't common anymore.

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honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 763
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 10-13-2006 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst   Click Here to Email honeyburst     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ignition switch is a new Ford switch (correct part #)....yes, it's on the column.....idle is a little low....gives a nice "lope" (268 comp cam, Holley 600cfm carb) if I took it to 800-1000 it would chirp whenever I put it in gear *lol*....I was told to set the idle where the car barely moves when you put it in gear and let off the brakes.....if it runs up to 15-20 mph w/ no gas pedal, the idle's too high......(that's from my dad, so watch what you say j/k.......

just trying to figure out why it's dieseling and won't start......probably not connected problems.......I'm going to mess with the timing / fuel settings tomorrow PM to try to cure the dieseling problem......if nobody has any other suggestions

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48311
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 10-13-2006 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dieseling is caused by either timing too advanced, idle mixture too lean, vacuum leak, or idle speed too high. {not your problem }

Shutting the engine before putting the car in park will prevent it, until you narrow down the cause.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

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honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 763
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 10-16-2006 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst   Click Here to Email honeyburst     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
okay.....reset the timing to 8 degrees, re-set the points to .018, adjusted the idle air mixture the way I was taught....tried to play with the new ignition switch....and couldn't find any vacuume (sp?) leaks

STILL having trouble starting this bi*ch (I love my '65, SHE doesn't do this)

STILL dieseling when I cut her off (I love my '65, SHE doesn't do this either)

anybody want to make a repair visit to Nashville and tell me how to fix this thing ??? (I think I've got a buyer, but want to get these problems repaired before he test drives it)

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Without life there could be no music, but without music, there can be no life.
1973 Convertible, 1965 A Code 4spd coupe, Past: 1969 GT, 1967 6cyl coupe, 1968 coupe
Two Rivers Ford, Parts Dept., Nashville, TN
www.geocities.com/littlewhitecoupe
www.geocities.com/jezebeldream
www.geocities.com/my73conv

[This message has been edited by honeyburst (edited 10-16-2006).]

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SkinnyMan
Gearhead

Posts: 827
From: Tupelo, MS - USA (CA temporarily)
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 10-16-2006 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SkinnyMan   Click Here to Email SkinnyMan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by honeyburst:
STILL having trouble starting this bi*ch (I love my '65, SHE doesn't do this)

STILL dieseling when I cut her off (I love my '65, SHE doesn't do this either)


The starting issue sounds like a bad bendix in the starter motor.

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SkinnyMan
Tupelo, MS

Thank you, Thank you very much!

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48311
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 10-16-2006 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is your octane too low?

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

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buening
Gearhead

Posts: 316
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 10-17-2006 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for buening   Click Here to Email buening     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by honeyburst:
STILL having trouble starting this bi*ch (I love my '65, SHE doesn't do this)

STILL dieseling when I cut her off (I love my '65, SHE doesn't do this either)


When you say, "having a trouble starting", is it not wanting to crank over or is it not wanting to fire? Starting and dieseling at the same time points toward timing IMO. Verify that your balancer timing marks are correct by finding TDC. You can either stick your finger in #1 spark plug hole, use a TDC stop that threads into the spark plug hole, or pull the valve cover and follow the firing order. Your timing marks may be off and you could actually have 40? of initial timing instead of 8?

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1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang

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honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 763
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 10-18-2006 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst   Click Here to Email honeyburst     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PROBLEM SOLVED !!!

a friend suggested that I didn't have ENOUGH timing.....and suggested that I contact Comp Cams and get their recommendation for timing based on the 268 cam I had installed. They told me 12-14 degrees (the book is 8 degrees). I had had it at 12, but it was pinging a lot, especially when it was warm, so I backed the timing to around 8.....no pinging, but that's about when the dieseling and starting problems began.......I assumed the starting issue was switch related, so I replaced the switch and ever since have been trying to "adjust" it so it would start properly......
A mechanic here suggested I set the timing "by ear" and see what happens.......I advanced the timing, lowered the idle speed, and TA-DAAAH.......no dieseling, no problems starting....as for the pinging, Comp suggested switching to 89 octaine.....

happy, happy, joy, joy........

thanks for all your help and advice !!!

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buening
Gearhead

Posts: 316
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 10-19-2006 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for buening   Click Here to Email buening     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glad you got it figured out!! I knew it was the timing and not the switch. BTW, what compression are you running? I'm running a XE262 cam in my 351w and it runs like a dream on 87. It has the stock compression though.

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1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang

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honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 763
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 10-19-2006 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst   Click Here to Email honeyburst     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
9.5 compression......I thought I was okay on the cheap stuff.....

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