The engine set up is 351c .020 over, 4-v heads cnc ported that flow 330 cfm intake @ .600 lift and 225 exhaust, 10.8:1 compression, solid roller cam w/spec's at .050 being 234 intake 236 exhaust and .588 lift, 110 lobe seperation. The car is a '69 fastback with a wide ratio Top-Loader and 3.89 gears. Based on everyones advice I will be running a 950HP carb and 3" exhaust.

Is the cam that I have too small for a good single plane? Or should I just go with a set of 4.30 gears to optimize the parts for a single plane? Are the parts just better for a dual plane set up?

I am looking for a very effective (fast) street set up, with occasional strip.

As always, your opinions are very important to me, this is the best Mustang forum I've found for Ford performance. Thanks in advance.

Luc

[This message has been edited by '69Stang (edited 04-02-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by '69Stang:
Which manifold should I use? I have two 351c intake manifolds that most of you 351c afficionados will recognize, the mid-rise dual plane Blue Thunder manifold and the Parker Funnel web. s the cam that I have too small for a good single plane? Or should I just go with a set of 4.30 gears to optimize the parts for a single plane? Are the parts just better for a dual plane set up?

I am looking for a very effective (fast) street set up, with occasional strip.

]

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Kid vishus: Yea, the cam is kind of small I'm beginning to think, too. I'm going to run it and if I don't like it I'll upgrade to something in the 240-250 range. That's why I'm confused on which intake to run. The set up seems more tailored to the dual plane.

quote:

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Originally posted by '69Stang:
Mpcoluv: I don't have the Parker port inserts, the place I get them from (Mad Hatter) is out of them. Anywhere else I can get them?

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I have a set of the Roush stuffers if you want to buy a set.
They are not quite as tall as the parkers however....You would have to do some slight port matching. Also the heads must be removed to install these inserts.

quote:

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Originally posted by '69Stang:
Mpcoluv: How do these inserts install? A screw and some epoxy?

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Yes, and they also are about 1/4" too long.They stick out of the port a little.
The intake face of the head has to be milled to get the inserts flush with the head.

Another view of those same stuffers...

Here are some more port stuffers from Parker...

And a website that shows tons of different intakes, as well as Parker's email address.

http://www.panteraplace.com/page35.htm

Here's another page of that website that has links to Pantera vendors that might sell the stuffers.

http://www.panteraplace.com/page24.htm

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

quote:

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Originally posted by JCQuinn@work:
In my tests there was no significant difference in flow with the bottom of the port filled.

John Quinn

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When I had cheap access to a SuperFlo, I took a head and raised the floor 7/8" and tapered it to the short turn, and it picked up over 25 cfm at .600, and 30 cfm at .700. Plus the mid lift numbers improved dramatically. (and I was guessin as to where to put the "putty")

I hope that didnt come across wrong. I wasnt trying to "upstage", show off or anything of that nature. I was just relaying the results from the one time I filled a port. Maybe it was a one time fluke.

quote:

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Originally posted by kid vishus:
John,

I hope that didnt come across wrong. I wasnt trying to "upstage", show off or anything of that nature. I was just relaying the results from the one time I filled a port. Maybe it was a one time fluke.

I changed the way I had it filled and re-worked the short turn and was going to re-flow it, but the flow bench I was using got sold and relocated out of state. So I have a port that was done for the sole purpose of flow testing (r&d), and no cheap access. So my "filling of ports" has been a short lived adventure.

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I have heard people with both results.
I have heard of one instance of a modified 4V head that picked up flow with an old "Two sided" terry parker insert. The guy could not duplicate it again with another head after much effort.
At the very worst, you should pick up low end and throttle response (velocity).
For drag cars that leave the line at over 5k rpm, you probably will not see any difference with the inserts.
Speaking of velocity, Dan Jones knows a guy who tested a Strip dominator Vs a performer on a chassis dyno and a road race course.
The strip dominator made more power on the dyno, but the performer was faster on the track (probably because the driver let the rpm drop a bit here and there).

Hmmm, I think you're confusing aa couple of different tests. Ron tested a
Torker, a Weiand Xcelerator 4V, and an Edelbrock Performer 4V. He found the
Performer was faster around a road course in his Pantera (open chamber 4V
heads, small domed TRW pistons, 230-something cam) because the Torker was so
dead below 4000 RPM. The Weiand 4V was worse dead. I offered up my spare
Strip Dominator to the cause but he never took me up on it. I also would
have like to see him test a Weiand 2V. I bet it would outperform the Weiand
4V and the Performer 4V.

Another guy in the club, Tim Tullio, did a bunch of intake testing on his
Pantera. His engine consisted of an Erson hydraulic flat tappet cam (232
deg duration @ 0.050", 108 LSA, 0.545" lift), Rhoads lifters, 4V quench
heads, flat tops pistons, 735 Holley, coatings, C&A rings, MSD ignition,
wrapped headers, and MPG Stinger exaust port plates. Intakes tested included
an Edelbrock Torker, Weiand Xcelerator 4V, Offy Port-o-Sonic 4V, Holley Strip
Dominator, along with a couple dual planes. Tim spent a lot of time
optimizing the carb for each intake. The Holley was 4 tenths quicker in the
1/4 mile than the Torker and had, by far, the best driveability (smooth with
no flat spots) of all of the single planes. He said it rivaled the dual
planes down low, as far as driveability was concerned, and by 3000 RPM was
pulling away. He could never get the Torker to smooth out at lower RPM,
despite a lot of tuning time. He never got to try a Blue Thunder high rise
dual plane.

He also tested intake and exhaust port plates. The only ones he found that
worked were the MPG Stingers exhaust plates (the 1/4" thick brass ones, not
the stainless steel ones). Pantera headers may respond to exhaust port
plates better than say a Mustang header because the header goes straight out
from the port, instead of turning down. IIRC, Tim worked his way down into
the 11's with a very streetable combo that worked better than the parts list
might indicate. It would even pull down 20 MPG on highway... It helps that
Panteras don't have much aero drag. He loved the Holley 735 (off a 428CJ)
but thought the Predator would be ideal for a big port 4V.

When Mike Cook built Mad Dog Antenuccis first 372 Cleveland stroker, they
tested the Strip Dominator, Blue Thunder, and Torker. The engine had an
offset ground crank, 6" rods, 4V quench heads, re-worked 750 Holley,
GTS tri-y headers (wierd desing 2" primaries leading into 2 1/4" collector),
Isky hydraulic flat tappet cam (single pattern version of your cam... I think
it was 0.565" lift cam, 108 LSA). The Strip Dominator was the best followed
closely by the Blue Thunder. The Torker was last but I think the extra cubes
help it out (didn't lag as far behind as expected). Mad Dog ran that engine
for several years including a bunch of Silver State races (running in the
165 MPH average class). When the car burnt to the ground, I sold him one of
my spare blocks and sourced a set of C302B heads. He came up with a Roush
intake to match the heads (the set that was damaged and Dave repaired) and
a set of high port headers (off the shelf item for Panteras... 4-into-1
with 2" primaries but still necking down to a 2 1/4" collector so he could
retain his GTS tailpipes and mufflers). The rest of the motor exactly the
same as the previous one with 4V heads and Strip Dominator. He said the
motor came on at about 2200 RPM with the C302's while it took the low
3000's for the 4V headed motor.

Also, Jack Butler borrowed my Blue Thunder for a dyno test against an Offy 360
and an Edelbrock Performer. The engine was a 377 cube 351C stroker (0.600"
solid lifter cam, 108 lobes, 6" rods, offset ground crank, 10.5:1 compression,
Willy's modified 950 HP carb, also tested his old 650 Holley). Unfortunately,
he ran all the tests with MPG intake port plates, so I think that colors the
results. The Offy 360 did very poorly, down 50 HP to the Edelbrock. While
the Offy isn't much of an intake, I think the port plates hurt the Offy but
helped the Performer which has smaller ports that match more closely to the
port plates. The Blue Thunder did best but the margin between it and the
Performer wasn't as large as expected, probably due to the port plates.
Dave's got my binders with the dyno sheets but I believe he made a bit under
475 HP. Jack said the Willy's modified 950 HP carb made a huge difference
over the admittedly undersized Holley 650 DP.

quote:

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Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
>
Hmmm, I think you're confusing aa couple of different tests.
Dan Jones

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Well, can't I just mix up that parts I like or at least remember?
If only the Clev had as much development as the SBC....
I really gotta bolt on my Performer and see if there is any low end difference....

I think the Active, used on a set of Aussie heads with a GOOD port job, would make an EXCELLENT street engine that would pull hard through a wide powerband.

The Accelerator for 2V heads has ports that are quite a bit larger than as-cast 2V ports. It would probably work great with 4V heads. It has a rather abrupt plenum, but with some blending, looks like it would work really well. I ported a set of Aussie heads and worked an Accelerator. I had extensions welded in the corners and blended the plenum into the roofs of the ports. It should work really well. I'm anxious to see how the engine does.

Good Luck!

Good Luck!

Did Mike Fielder have the side-draft EFI manifold at Columbus?

[email protected]

He also has a California distribution phone of 562-428-9764. BTW, Pantera Internaitional Motorsports is selling the TFC as the Vapours II (the Vapours I was the Active).

Terry Parker has revised his intakes and they are a similar sort of air gap single plane for 2V and 4V heads. I don't have Terry's current contact info but he's supposed to send me some new photos soon, along with his contact info.

kv

thanks

(p.s. thats better )

Paul