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  Y block question (s)

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Author Topic:   Y block question (s)
Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-29-2004 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
What was the last year for a factory installed 4V induction?
I think 1957 ????

Was the 2-4V set up ever offered on a 292?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1889
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-29-2004 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil        Reply w/Quote
Alex, I believe that you are correct. As far as I recall, 1957 was the last year for both the 312 AND the 4 barrel carb. It was also the first & only year of the 4150 series Holley 4 barrel. I`m pretty certain that the 292 never came with 2x4 setup.I don`t know about 55&56, but in 57, the 292& 272 were 2 barrel only.

------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA M/Stock 302 5speed. [email protected]
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd

[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 998
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 10-29-2004 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work        Reply w/Quote
In 58 the top engine was the 352 and the 312 was dropped. No more 4 barrels for Y blocks.

The 292 was the t-bird engine in 55 so although I don't know for sure I am pretty confident that it came with a four barrel that year. In 56 and 57 the 312 was king and got the four. I don't remember if the 56 had the two carb option.

John

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-30-2004 01:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
You mean 332 in 1958 don't you John?
352 in 1959 yes/no?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-30-2004 06:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
The 312 was the MERC base line engine for 59/60. They went to the 223 and 292 baseline in 1961 (returned to FORD). It was a 2V, so 1957 would have been the last year of a 4V installation. Only 8V (including over the counter) were intended for the 312.

The 332 and the 352 were introduced in the 1958 model run.

CORRECTION: 332/352 and 361 (EDSEL-POLICE)

------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

[This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 11-01-2006).]

capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 8777
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-30-2004 09:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man        Reply w/Quote
wish i was old enough to remember all that!!

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.33 @92mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.

http://community.prestage.com/Member+Pages/789.aspx

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-30-2004 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capri man:

wish i was old enough to remember all that!!


I resemble that remark...

------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 8777
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-30-2004 12:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man        Reply w/Quote
thats ok, my first car was a 1951 chevy 2 door delux!! (and my last chevy i might add!!)

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.33 @92mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.

http://community.prestage.com/Member+Pages/789.aspx

[This message has been edited by capri man (edited 10-30-2004).]

[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 998
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 10-31-2004 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work        Reply w/Quote
"wish i was old enough to remember all that!! "

No you don't. Being really really old isn't as great as it's said to be. LOL

KULTULZ is right Alex, both the 332 and the 352 were 58 engines. The early 352's had solid lifters and fully machined combustion chambers. It's too bad Ford was afraid to put a decent cam in them, they could have been hot. They finally rectified the cam in the 60 model year and even put a better carb on and VOILA Ford was back in the hot rod business and stayed there for 11 glorious years.

John

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-31-2004 06:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
The early 352's had solid lifters and fully machined combustion chambers. It's too bad Ford was afraid to put a decent cam in them, they could have been hot. They finally rectified the cam in the 60 model year and even put a better carb...

FORD had a plan for the 352 in 1958 but pulled out of racing complying with the AMA ban on factory sponsored racing. The 352 suddenly was detuned and as mentioed wasn't upgraded again until the 1960 352/360HP.

MERCURY also was hurt by the ban and the 430 wasn't fully developed as it could have been. FORD Performance was so poor in the 58/59 model runs that FORD offered a 430 TBIRD in 1959 that HOLMAN-MOODY took and made a winner out of.

FORD got snookered...

------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-31-2004 06:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
Don't forget also, the FE had three introductory engines, 332,352 and the 361 (390 bore and 352 stroke) so they were already having thought of a 390ci in 1958.

And as was mentioned prior, the 361 was available in the 1958 CANADIAN FORD with the 332, no 352.

------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-31-2004 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Wasn't there a 368 NASCAR Merc option?
I seem to recall seeing a lot of nice looking 368 OEM race parts at a swap meet that some old time stock-um-up-car racer was offering.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 10-31-2004 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:

[B]Wasn't there a 368 NASCAR Merc option?


That was the 1957 MERCURY TURNPIKE CRUISER option...The M-335. Dual fours on a LINC Y-BLOCK 368.

The MEL 410 was actually scheduled for installation but they had casting problems and were given to EDSEL for 1958.

------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-31-2004 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 07-17-2005 07:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
-1956 FORD WITH 368CI OPTION (S-CODE)

Never say never about fomoco. I learn something everyday.

Absolutely Fascinating.

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-11-2005 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:

Wasn't there a 368 NASCAR Merc option?


I learn something everyday...

-1957 MERC M335-

(I wish one was posting referring url's correctly... )


------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

[This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 08-11-2005).]

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 08-15-2005 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KULTULZ:
[b]-1956 FORD WITH 368CI OPTION (S-CODE)

Never say never about fomoco. I learn something everyday.

Absolutely Fascinating.[/B]



Freaking adware pop ups!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-16-2005 02:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:

Freaking adware pop ups!


They are a pain. There is one that comes on right in the middle of the text and the only way to get rid of it is to click out...


------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

Also older FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-

DidgeyTrucker
Gearhead

Posts: 1813
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
Registered: Oct 99

posted 08-16-2005 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DidgeyTrucker        Reply w/Quote
I am amazed that in 1958 Ford would cast an engine block that could be bored out to the 427 and would handle the stroke of a 428. Stock, that's a 447!

Tracy

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 11-01-2006 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:

[B]Wasn't there a 368 NASCAR Merc option?


Update For You Alex- This is an entry from IMOA Board concerning the M-335;

quote:
The 368 Turnpike engine (1957 TURNPIKE CRUISER-KULTULZ) had only two "official" versions from the factory....the standard 368 with a single 4 bbl rated at 295 HP was what was used most...was exactly the same as the Lincoln engine rated at 300hp...and borrowed from the Lincoln line as the MEL engine (410 CI) which were being built in Cleveland were going into the Edsel, and production was delayed enough to miss having them available for the 1957 model year in the Mercury. (Remember though, the 57 Merc and the 58 Edsel were being built on the same assembly line side by side).

There was one factory option, known as the M-335 package...which was the 368 with an aluminum dual quad manifold, the 335 designation was supposed to be the HP rating...had a solid lifter cam that replaced the hydralic one in the single 4bbl engine...good news, bullet proof great flowing heads, improved manifold characteristics, some had dual point distributors, and there was actully 3 different cam configurations that Mercury was using depending on who bought the car....racers got the hot cam. Bad news...a lot of cam shaft breakage reported, and some bottom end issues with the seals blowing out as crankcase pressure was vented poorly.

Although we hear of a tri-power set up, not available from the factory...and Bill Stropp's shop was fooling around with multiple tri power set ups...both on the 368 and on the 312 (believe it or not).

I am doing some research on the M-335 for an article I am writing...I am trying to verify this but so far it seems true, but the 368 M-335 was available on the TPC as a Dealer Special Order (AND THIS IS CONFIRMED-KULTULZ), mostly as "show room sweethearts"...and in the Monterey only as a factory race ready...Monterey 2 door post with a 3 speed stick only. No Montclairs had the option that I can find.

Now I have just this week came across a gentleman who had a M-335 option (368 dual qual, stick shift) in a Monterey convertible...which is the first I have heard of...also RUMOR...there was one or two of the Pace Car convertibles with the M-335 option and an automatic trans as available in the standard DSO cars...but I cannot verify if that is true and I have talked to about 6 TPC convertible owners...so the search goes on.

The down side of the 368 standard 4 bbl engine was the the plane of the manifold was lowered to accomodate the hood of the '57 Mercs so the fuel flow had little to no drop into the combustion chamber...a serious design flaw and that plagued the 368 until it went out of production the last day before changeover in Aug 1957.

There are a few "clones" out there...the manifold was sold over the counter at Mercury dealers, and reportedly a few 1957 Lincolns also came out of the factory with that dual four manifold...the original ones had a big "M" stamped right on the top...the kind of M with the elongated feet to match the 57 Mercury M as on the trunk of those cars.

The 368 was a common option in the Voyager 2 door hard top wagon...and was more rare in the Commuter, but none the less they are out there.

Probably more info than you wanted to know....sorry....


The above was a post by a MERC EXPERT at IMOA (and I have no reason to doubt him as most of this has been confirmed since the origional post).

I also have a full set of M-335 MONTEREY (NASCAR) photos, the model built to qualify it for NASCAR that year.


------------------
Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968

Also Early FORD Special Service Tools

-Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln- Forum-

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 11-01-2006 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rory McNeil:

I don`t know about 55 & 56, but in 57, the 292 & 272 were 2 barrel only.


1955 had a 2V and a 4V 272 and a 4V 292 (two HP ratings).

1956 had a 2V 272 (two HP ratings) and a 4V 292 (two HP ratings depending on Trans Type).

1956 also had a dealer 8V over the counter kit.

The 1957 292 was 4V and the 272 was 2V.

The 292 went 2V in 1958.


------------------
Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968

Also Early FORD Special Service Tools

-Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln- Forum-

[This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 11-01-2006).]

SkinnyMan
Gearhead

Posts: 916
From: Tupelo, MS - USA (CA temporarily)
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 11-01-2006 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SkinnyMan        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
What was the last year for a factory installed 4V induction? I think 1957 ????Was the 2-4V set up ever offered on a 292?

Didn't the "Y" block continue on in pickemup trucks into the early to mid 60's? Don't know if they had 4V on them.

Don't believe the 292 was ever offered with dual quads.

This is a site that gives a bit more info on "Y" blocks. I was right about the trucks getting them into the early '60s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Y-block_engine

------------------
SkinnyMan
Tupelo, MS

Thank you, Thank you very much!

[This message has been edited by SkinnyMan (edited 11-01-2006).]

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 11-02-2006 03:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
This series of engines also lacked the breathing abilities compared to the Chevrolet 265 small block, thus could not develop the same power.

Author then says;

quote:
The Y-block head provided excellent air flow, superior to the Chevrolet.

Which was it?

[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 998
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 11-02-2006 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work        Reply w/Quote
I never flowed 312 heads but I had a 312 with ported heads and an Isky cam, it had no trouble beating any small block Chevy that ran against it.

I know the single 4 barrel 312 with factory (unported) heads could not stay with a 283 Chevy. What I don't know is if the poor performance of the stock 312 was due to heads that needed to be ported or due to a low performance cam. Knowing Ford engineering I suspect it was a poor factory cam.

John

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