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  MUST II Front Disc Update

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Author Topic:   MUST II Front Disc Update
KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 02-21-2004 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
For those of you that use MUST II suspension conversion kits or do your own, -ROD & CUSTOM MOTORSPORTS- has released a brake mounting kit (RC-129) that will allow replacing the origional 9" disc brakes with later 11" brakes using all FORD components on MUST II spindles.

Before, it was usually either all GM components or GRANADA 11" discs with GM {{{{{ shudder }}}}} calipers.

This new kit uses GRANADA 11" rotors and later FOX MUSTANG calipers.

I am not sure at this point which caliper it uses (early 60MM piston or later 66MM piston) but will find out and post here.

If later, it should allow the MARK VII 73MM caliper upgrade. To tighten things up, STEEDA Stainless Caliper Sleeves (PN 363-0114) should also be able to be used.

[This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 02-21-2004).]

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 02-23-2004 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
Kultulz

I'd like to know about the caliper size. Some of the later Mustang calipers aren't a whole lot better than the stock ones. I can't seem to figure out where I put my chassis books. I'd like to figure some pressures. Exactly how big is 73mm? I ordered the R&C catalog. I've posted everwhere so I'm not sure if you heard but I found a Torino rotor 11 3/4" that will fit except for I'll have to sink the outer bearinga touch. Also the 99 - 01 Mustang caliper is looking real sweet.

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 02-23-2004 10:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
Conversion Factor is 1 mm = .0393701 in.

60mm = 2.362in.

66mm = 2.598in.

73mm = 2.875in.

The above are sliding single piston FOX.

If you have found that a 11.75" rotor will fit the spindle, I would go for the MUSTANG dual piston calipers. Master Power Brakes will most likely be able to fab the mounting bracket for it if you are not comfortable fabbing it for yourself. Call and talk to them.

The dual piston caliper will give better application of the pads against the rotor than the single piston. They will also not be subject to piston freeze as were the old KELSEY-HAYES.

Do you have the tech site on the dual piston calipers? Let me know also if you need contact information on MPC.

And remember, it is nice to share new technology with friends...

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-01-2004 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
I called R&C and he said 79 - 83 caliper. The Napa catalog list the 79 - 83 caliper bore at 2 3/8" or 2.375 = 60 mm. Odd cause the 74 - 78 uses 2 5/8" or 2.625 = 66 mm. Doesn't seem right the earlier hasa larger bore caliper. I'm not sure where I got this 99 - 01 twin piston caliper info (maybe from you) seeing as you and I seem to be bouncing all over the web. But here it is.

http://www.woodyg.com/fairlane/finfo/discs66.html

I'll be sure to share. This is getting real interesting.

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

[This message has been edited by Darkman270 (edited 03-01-2004).]

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 03-01-2004 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
I called R&C and he said 79 - 83 caliper.

If the mounting bracket kit will only accept the early caliper, it is not worth the purchase price to me. When I questioned him, he referred to the later caliper which to me means the 66mm.

I suppose it was easier to upgrade to the FOX caliper to clear the 11" rotor. I would definitely look at the twin piston caliper now.

The thought of a GM caliper just doesn't sound appealing on a FORD.

[This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 03-01-2004).]

amcagreg
Journeyman

Posts: 11
From: albany
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 08-22-2004 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amcagreg        Reply w/Quote
I know the 11" Granada rotors fit because I put them on my Mustang II based kit car. What I really would like to know is has anyone tried putting the 13" discs on? Is it possible to simply use the SN95 spindles. Now I know there is a wheel clearance problem but just for the sake of argument assume I have some 17" Cobra wheels. How can I attach some 13" rotor?

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-23-2004 06:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
The SN95 MUSTANG has steering knuckles with a sealed bearing hub and seperate disc. Not interchangeable.

If you can find an older hub (and larger disc)(can't think of any application over 11.5") that will slide on the MUST II spindle, you can make adaptors to fit the two piston MUSTANG caliper. Or adapt the discs to your present hub.

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 09-03-2004 06:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
Since this has come up again...I'll post my update or lack there of. Family obligations, work and health (spent a week in the hospital)have stolen my garage time. I'm hoping that soon I'll be able to get going again however I need to complete my rear suspension mods and paint my frame so that I can leave the suspension on.

Kultulz have you seen anything else on the use of the twin piston caliper usage.

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 09-03-2004 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Kultulz have you seen anything else on the use of the twin piston caliper usage.

Just the info I have posted before. It is a beautiful caliper asm but you have to fabricate your own mount or Master Power Brakes will fab one for you. Do you have that website?

I guarantee it will bring a set of GRANADA rotors down...

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 09-28-2004 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
Sorry for the late reply but Hurricane Ivan has kept me a bit busy. I do have the website. Just when I thought I was going to have some time to work on my project Ivan decides that he wanted to redesign my yard and everything in it including my roof. The $2550 deductible hurts but at least the insurance will pay everything else.

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 09-28-2004 08:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
...sheesh...

Sorry to hear about your brush with the weather down there...At least your insurance company came through for you. Hope you and your family are well...

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 09-29-2004 06:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Darkman270:

Kultulz

I've posted everwhere so I'm not sure if you heard but I found a Torino rotor 11 3/4" that will fit except for I'll have to sink the outer bearing a touch.


This just dawned on me. What year rotor did you find that can be adapted? Will you have to machine the cup stop to allow the bearing to be postioned further in? Have you done (or had this done yet)?

quote:
Also the 99 - 01 Mustang caliper is looking real sweet.

It will have a lot of pad surface and with the two pistons should stop really well. This caliper is far superior to the single piston sliding caliper.

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 09-29-2004 06:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
quote:
1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger

WHOA!

You have a '57 F-CODE engine in a pickup? Where did you find it?

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-03-2004 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
"This just dawned on me. What year rotor did you find that can be adapted? Will you have to machine the cup stop to allow the bearing to be postioned further in? Have you done (or had this done yet)?"

The 71 Torino rotor. Yes the cup stop will have to be machined deeper and that is why I am rethinking doing it. Not that it will be hard to do BUT I want to stick to off the shelf parts on things that will need replacing one day. Also this rotor is nearly $100. I have mocked one up but have not modified it again the $100. I might get three rotors from salvage yard and modify all giving me a cheap spare. I am heavily leaning to the Granada rotor and the twin piston Mustang calipers.

"WHOA!

You have a '57 F-CODE engine in a pickup? Where did you find it?"

Not exactly I have a factory 57 Ford VR57 McCulloch supercharger setup AND I have a 57 Ford F100. It was only natural to marry the two.

As far as Ivan is concerned body and soul are fine but I have a lot of damage. I found out yesterday that my coverage was not nearly as good as I thought but I will survive and rebuild. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 07-12-2006 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
Just a brief update I did decide to use the 11" Granada rotors and not the Torino 11 3/4" rotors. The deciding factor was to be able to use a part off the shelf without having to sink the outer race. I am working on a caliper bracket to use the 99 - 01 Mustang caliper on the Mus II spindle. It will be harder than adapting it to a Granada spindle but it should be doable.

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick hurricane Ivan stressed snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 07-13-2006 02:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ        Reply w/Quote
Thanx and keep us updated!

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 07-14-2006 08:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
Yesterday I was working on the adapting of the Mustang caliper to the Mus II spindle. My work so far has consisted of mocking it up by attaching a piece of angle iron to an engine stand and mounting the spindle to the angle by either the lower ball joint hole or the tie rod end hole. Using the latter hole I decided to install the lower control arm to check for caliper interference. To my surprise I had interference with the rotor touching the very tip of the lower control arm. The contact occurred on the inner circumference of the rotor face about 1/4" into to path that the pads squeeze. Hope that is clear. This totally blindsided me as it is pretty much accepted that there is no interference there. As far as I know a spacer is used only when using GM rotors. I had the control arm in a near level position in relation to the spindle being plumb. That should be where the suspension sets on a fully built truck or car for that matter. Can anyone runnung this setup look and see how close the tip of the lower control arm comes to your rotor? Has anyone else encountered this or heard of it? I know this is a stumbling block and I'm thinking now maybe I was sold the wrong rotors. Anyone have any thoughtys?????????

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick hurricane Ivan stressed snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 07-15-2006 06:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
I do have the right rotor and I've received feedback from quite a few that had the same problem. Funny how I've never heard of it till after I powder coat everything. So my options now are to bend or grind my freshly powder coated part OR go back and revisit the Torino rotor. The extra 3/4" diameter may translate to a larger innner circumference which may give me the neccessary clearance I need. Of course I'd have to sink the outer bearing. I really didn't want to do that. I'll have to do some measuring AND a bunch of thinking.

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick hurricane Ivan stressed snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 07-18-2006 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
I have been studying the NAPA catalogs and have found two rotors that interest me. The first is a 70-73 Mustang. It is only logical that it should fit as Ford didn't deliberately go out of it's way to reengineer the 74 on items they didn't have too. Same bearings and seal and only a little taller than the Granada rotor BUT it is 11 1/4" AND it is thicker than the Granada which is a plus as the 99' caliper was for a 1" thick rotor. The 70-73 Mustang is .944 where the Granada is .888 inches thick. I checked it tonight and it fits the spindle with no problems But it still barely hits the lower control arm. The larger inner diameter of the rotor face did help BUT I still need a little more clearance.

The second is from a 70' Thunderbird and again it has the same bearings and seal BUT it is 11 3/4" and (the bad part)I believe it will require sinking the outer race. I do believe that if it fits the spindle it will not hit the lower control arm. At this point I do not know the thickness yet. I will try to get one tomorrow and check it.

I have one wild card. A 12 1/8 inch rotor off of a 97-02 Ford Expediton. The height is perfect and will not require sinking the outer bearing. It has the same outer bearing but a different inner one. I don't know what the difference is yet. With all that said one person said he tried to duplicate what I'm doing (from Woody's Fairlane site) and it simply wouldn't work due too interference between the caliper and the control arms both upper and lower. I believe that the larger the rotor the better my chances are of adapting the caliper without interference.

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick hurricane Ivan stressed snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

[This message has been edited by Darkman270 (edited 07-18-2006).]

Darkman270
Journeyman

Posts: 18
From: Pensacola Florida
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 07-25-2006 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Darkman270        Reply w/Quote
Here are the most recent developments.

The 11 1/4" 70 Mustang bolts up but still hits the lower control arm even after I did some delicate massaging of the tip of the lower control arm. The primary reason for this is the increased thickness of the rotor which is a plus but in this situation it becomes a negative due to the clearance issues. After consideration I will not use this rotor. Minimal gain and I never really did figure out how to gain the clearance needed. Possibly an inner bearing spacer that is used on the Mus II spindle when running the GM rotor would solve the problem but it may space the grease seal to far out.

The 12 1/8" Expedition rotor while it is the same height, it does not have the same bearing spacing and the inner bearing would require a special but available bearing. The outer bearing would have to be sunk and I have not been able to find a grease seal that would fit. I'm sure that the grease seal could be addressed by a press in adapter to the rear of the rotor. It probably would require machining to the rotor but if you have to sink the outer you could get it done all at the same time. The final straw here is the 5 x 135 mm bolt pattern. It would probably require a special rear axle to have a matching bolt pattern. A plus is that the rotor would give you the same track width as the Granada rotor. It also has a Big problem that it shares with the Thunderbird rotor and I will address in the next section. Due to the excessive adaptation needed I will not use this rotor.

The 11 3/4" 70-71 Thunderbird rotor is the top contender. It bolts up and uses the OEM bearings and seals. There is STILL some minor clearance issues but I believe they are resolvable. Tonight I need to check were the oils seal rides on the spindle. It looks a little close so I'll check it and report. It will require the outer bearing to be sunk apx. 1/4" and originally I was hesitant to do that but now this project has pissed me off and I realize that I will never drive this truck enough to wear out a rotor so I'm going to continue to concentrate on this rotor and treat it as a Money Pit. Now there is one big problem with it. It is apx 1.15" thick and the 99-01 Mustang caliper was designed for a one inch thick rotor. My solution to this is to mill whatever is required, probably .075, off of each pad. I now that that will make them not last as long but I believe I have addressed that. I'll get three sets done at the same time and probably pass them on to whoever inherits this project after I leave this world. No I'm not dieing but let's face it I have been working on it for about five years and I still haven't painted the frame and I'm no spring chicken. I think that I can make a jig and do the pads with a router table after all it is just a high speed mill that is up side down and they do make carbide bits for them. I'll try it with an old pad first and see.

If y'all are following this let me hear your comments.

------------------
Charles in Pensacola Fl.

Restomodding at the speed of a slow sick hurricane Ivan stressed snail!!!

1957 F100 312 auto with OEM57 McCulloch supercharger
1970 Mach 1 351C 4 spd
1969 Mach 1 428 CJ auto

roger
Gearhead

Posts: 533
From: ontario, canada
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 10-21-2006 10:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for roger        Reply w/Quote
Following along with you guys just to see if you solve this rubbing issue,
would love to go with a 2 piston caliper,
I;m running brand new, at the time of install, Granada front rotors, discs, calipers on my 62 f;lane & within a month one "hung up" in the bore.
Of course i checked every front end piece, alignment until i finally checked the calipers!
So, do let us know howe you proceed

ccode67
Gearhead

Posts: 3285
From: douglasville,ga,usa
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 11-02-2006 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ccode67        Reply w/Quote
Have you seen the kit from Master Power brakes? It uses the 2 piston calipers and comes as a kit, unfortunately, it's like $1300.

The 51 F1 I'm building is gonna have to get the GM caliper set up, at least for now, the $1300 kit will have to be a later upgrade.

Interesting thread here though. Thanks for sharing your research.

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