Y-block F.I. - Mustangsandmore Forums

Brought to you in part by:

Mustangsandmore Forums

Old Fords and Mercurys

Y-block F.I.

profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Author	Topic: Y-block F.I.
70SportsRoof Gearhead Posts: 1013 From: Orange County, CA Registered: Dec 2001	posted 09-19-2003 11:42 PM Anybody know if there is anybody making fuel injection setups for 312 Y-blocks? Been thinking of maybe injecting the 312 in my '57. ------------------ Gary M. 1946 Ford pickup 1946 Ford pickup 1957 Ford FL 500 Twn Vic 1970 Mustang SportsRoof IP: Logged
jsracingbbf Gearhead Posts: 2954 From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A. Registered: Mar 2002	posted 09-19-2003 11:54 PM if you have a carb on it now you can easily convert to EFI. I've been thinking about it for my race car. the indy cars run this same type. try these guys, http://force-efi.com/ ------------------ JS 69 Mustang Pro ET Drag IP: Logged
70SportsRoof Gearhead Posts: 1013 From: Orange County, CA Registered: Dec 2001	posted 09-20-2003 01:13 AM hmm...looks interesting...I'll look into it...yeah, the car has the carb still, stock cast iron 4 barrel intake with Holley carb ------------------ Gary M. 1946 Ford pickup 1946 Ford pickup 1957 Ford FL 500 Twn Vic 1970 Mustang SportsRoof IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 09-21-2003 09:27 PM Easiest (and cheapest) method to convert an older engine to fuel injection is with TBI. HOLLEY makes a system but the best (I think) is from Barry Grant. -Computer Managed Venturi Fuel Injection (VFI)- ------------------ I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968. Also older FORD Special Service Tools -MEL Engine Forum- IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-15-2004 02:49 PM You couldn't run multi-point EFI on a FORD Y-BLOCK as the intake runners are over and under. How would you get the injector bungs put in? Multi-point would have to be fabbed off an old HILLBORN Inj Manifold like this SBC example. Before; After; IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 01-22-2004 04:52 PM I'm gonna try this a 3rd time Why are you posting them ugly foreign intakes here picts like that shouls be barred you need picts like this http://www.ford-y-block.com/enginepics.htm scroll down to the single plane that would be easy to make fuel injected and they do make hillborn for Y-blocks too but the prices will kill you IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-22-2004 06:17 PM quote: Originally posted by Bob Hopkins: I'm gonna try this a 3rd time OK... quote: Why are you posting them ugly foreign intakes here picts like that shouls be barred you need picts like this scroll down to the single plane that would be easy to make fuel injected and they do make hillborn for Y-blocks too but the prices will kill you I posted the illustrations to show how a HILLBORN setup could look after fabrication. An engine is an engine and technology can be learned and shared from all manufacturers. This intake seems to me to be a custom made tunnel ram. It would take a good man to fabricate a nice looking set of fuel rails for it. I think this system suggested would also be expensive, not to mention the fabrication the hood would need. Can't we all just get along? IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-22-2004 06:23 PM BTW... The valley pan cover they have on that build sucks. But I do see one thing...If a man was a good fabricator, it wouldn't be that difficult to make a similiar intake with reduced runner length to accept injector bungs. ------------------ I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968. Also older FORD Special Service Tools -MEL Engine Forum- IP: Logged
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 27499 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-22-2004 06:59 PM Why couldn't you use an old Man-a-Fre, Weiand, or Edlebrock 4x2 or 6x2 intake as a base line intake to adapt EFI? ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04 First SS/MA in the TENS! IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-22-2004 09:15 PM The problem is on the FORD Y-Block, the intake runners are siamesed, i.e. they run over and under one another from the common plenum to the cylinder head. It would be very difficult (to me it seems) to get injector bungs into the common runners (see how they run?)...much less a set of injectors and rails. The 4x2 intake would have this same problem (and you would need two throttle bodies and the 6x2 intake the same problem and I wouldn't know what thpe of throttle body you would use. Can you enlightem me as I am fully open for suggestions. To FI one of these things would be something... IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 01-23-2004 02:12 PM Easy man I was just bustin on you bout the fireign intake posts I have see a couple real Hilborn injector intakes for Y-blocks prices are outofsight Most of the 4/2barrel and 6 2/barrel manafolds I have seen were log style {early 50's tech] and had a commen port in the manafold to feed both ports in head you would pull your hair out trining to make that work,maybe on batch fire but not suquencial fire injection.I wonder ifyou could put the injectiors in from side of port stead of top and bottpm??? IP: Logged
SteveLaRiviere Administrator Posts: 45869 From: Saco, Maine Registered: May 99	posted 01-23-2004 02:15 PM Sure you could, you just have to do something crafty with the fuel rails. ------------------ '70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open '70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open '72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc '94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip IP: Logged
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 27499 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-23-2004 11:26 PM I'm pretty sure I caould make an old style log manifold work. ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04 First SS/MA in the TENS! IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-24-2004 06:07 AM I still think a fabricated lowered tunnel ram would be the way to go. The extended runners would also give you the low end needed. IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 01-28-2004 03:48 PM You know i was thinking this over and I think the 4 and 6 carb log manafolds may work fine ,first fake the carbs and make them air only,no fuel and all the Y-block 4-6 log manafolds had no divider between the upper and lower intake ports,so you have one big portyou would have to find a long injectorwith a lot of flow you gonna feed 2 cylinders aim it right in the middle at both ports. And with just 4 injectors to hide in the middle it would still look good. ?????????????????????????????????????? IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-29-2004 05:13 AM quote: ...so you have one big portyou would have to find a long injectorwith a lot of flow you gonna feed 2 cylinders aim it right in the middle at both ports. You would have to have SEFI in this example wouldn't you? If batch/bank fire, it seems like there would be quite a bit of flow reversion. How would you trigger it? Crank/cam sensor? Specially made MCU? The Log Type Intake does sounds workable though. IP: Logged
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 27499 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-29-2004 10:11 AM Individual TBI units could easily be adapted to a multi carb log intake. 2 or even 4. Save on a lot of plumbing and engineering that way. That was my plan. (One more day Gary) ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04 First SS/MA in the TENS! IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-29-2004 01:12 PM If going TBI on a log intake, you might as well just use the BARRY GRANT VFI on a new aluminum intake. No fuss...No muss. Uh...One more day before what? ...you're not planning on suing me are you... IP: Logged
Moneymaker Administrator Posts: 27499 From: Lyons, IL, USA Registered: May 99	posted 01-29-2004 01:25 PM quote: Originally posted by KULTULZ: If going TBI on a log intake, you might as well just use the BARRY GRANT VFI on a new aluminum intake. No fuss...No muss. Uh...One more day before what? ...you're not planning on suing me are you... LOL @ Gary Hell no. One more day before we get out of this God forsaken weather and head for Orlando FLORIDA! Why do you think I've been in a bad mood? I HATE SNOW!!!!!! PS, the log manifold wout TBI units would look cooler and the cool quotiant is very important! ------------------ Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver MCA member# 53321 NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04 First SS/MA in the TENS! IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked." Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!" Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!" www.moneymakerracing.com IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 01-29-2004 01:44 PM Iwas flippin through a issue of HOTROD bacK in a piese on new parts I see were Moon equipt has injectors that look like the old Ford Stromberg 97's set on tri carb setups dont know the cost {Not cheap I'll bet}butit looks like old stuff with a air cleaner on it. IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-29-2004 08:56 PM Oh! Waiting for Orlando. That explains the accelerated PMS moments... Bob...What issue of HOT ROD are you looking at? I went to their website but saw nothing mentioned. I would surely like to see that. IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 01-30-2004 10:14 AM I was the latest one I just got home from work and sat in reading room and was continplating And I like to read during continplating!!! IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 02-03-2004 04:19 PM Here is a Weiand 6 carb log manafold look at bottom of it this is were I think FI will have some off idle distributation issues thats a bigole hole to work with!!! IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 02-03-2004 04:20 PM Here is a Weiand 6 carb log manafold look at bottom of it this is were I think FI will have some off idle distributation issues thats a bigole hole to work with!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2457754461&category=6763 IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 02-03-2004 08:11 PM If you notice, most EFI's are single plane. So fuel suspension would not be a problem here (I don't think) if you could get the injectors set up correctly. I still see very little mounting option for injector bungs (as I wouldn't want to alter the looks of one of these things if at all possible). It would have to be a single (hi-flow) on the underside. Now if you went to TBI and had injectors mounted in the throttle body, I could see low RPM stumble and/or hesitation due to the fuel falling out of the mixture. I think the log-type intake is the answer but it would have to be a custom made so as not to ruin a piece of history like this illustration. [This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 02-03-2004).] IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 02-04-2004 02:20 AM The common runner in the WEIAND only adds to air flow (fuel mixture flow if wet); This theory is still being used today as is shown in the below photo where a SBC has opened runners on TPI setup. This adds immensely to air flow. The problem still remains as to where to put one injector per runner. IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 02-04-2004 08:42 AM The earliest milti-carb manafolds I can remember were fabercated Crowler log style intakes finding one of them will be fun,but you could find aluminum tube and flat stock to fabracate one,and weld bungs on the inner/under sideof log to spray at center ofport branch off,I believe your right with out woring about wet flowand fuel drop out a log will work,I wonder how it would chang things to move the logsand lengthen the branch runners to head ports???Lengthen them and cross the logs to feed opposite side,keeping the 6-97 look. you cand weld one up and I'll try it on my 292" 56 Fairlane IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 02-04-2004 12:23 PM quote: ...you cand weld one up and I'll try it on my 292" 56 Fairlane The earliest multi-carb I remember seeing (and understanding what I was looking at) was a 58 CHEV 348. IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 02-04-2004 03:38 PM you must be one of them young kids I can rember the new issue of HOT RODcoming in the mail With a big article in the new 54 Ford with overhead valves,and still have the magazine. In all the old mags back then they were all advertisinf multi- carb log "u-weld-them" manafolds IP: Logged
SteveLaRiviere Administrator Posts: 45869 From: Saco, Maine Registered: May 99	posted 02-04-2004 03:45 PM Ah, just toss a 460 in it and get rid of all this farm equipment! ------------------ '70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open '70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open '72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc '94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 02-04-2004 04:23 PM finding a 6 carb manafold is gonna be rite impossable for one of themthere chevyhead 385 seriesmotors IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 02-04-2004 04:25 PM If you want to go big cubes I'd go with a MEL 462" with the 6 carb intake IP: Logged
SteveLaRiviere Administrator Posts: 45869 From: Saco, Maine Registered: May 99	posted 02-04-2004 04:35 PM quote: Originally posted by Bob Hopkins: finding a 6 carb manafold is gonna be rite impossable for one of themthere chevyhead 385 seriesmotors Good, then you won't have to worry about the horsepower loss of multiple carbs. ------------------ '70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open '70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open '72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc '94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 02-05-2004 11:11 AM horsepower loss of multi-carbs????? IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 02-23-2004 03:35 PM -Y-BLOCK FUEL INJECTION SOLVED! Mounted on a 6x2 log intake... IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 03-09-2004 09:33 AM OK here this will be the perfect intake to add port injectors http://www.y-blocksforever.com/html/yestertech.html IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 03-09-2004 02:31 PM Remember...I showed this one in an earlier post. The only problem I see with it would be hood clearance. What I am thinking (dangerous) is a design similiar to a CHEV TPI. The runners would be fairly short and the rails could be run under the plenum. Well, not actually under the plenum on the Y-BLOCK, but maybe a fuel block that would hold four injectors between the four intake runners on either side. The upper plenum could be either a front throttle body mount design or just have a normal carb pad to accept a throttle body so as to retain some stock appearance. I have been thinking on this pretty hard lately (that's why I am napping so much lately) as you know I am a MEL freak and there is no suitable fuel delivery except for the 3X2's and everyone has that. A set of HILLBORN injectors just went off on e-bay for a little over five hundred but by the time you have it modified to EFI, you would have a fortune in it. Same for the MOON 97's...You would have a fortune invested on a log manifold. It would be something similiar to this; What did you say you were going to do with that 462? IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 03-09-2004 03:36 PM I never bought the 462 I just found one in boneyard up here in Jersey and was thinking !!!! what are you thinking of puting this into? they tend to be a tad heavy I think just about any way you go with this F/I setup it's gonna costBUCKS,what the hey we can't spend it in the nursing home IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 03-09-2004 05:40 PM How about this brainstorm? The heat riser is cut away and plugged (don't need it with EFI). Make a hold down plate to hold the runners tightly to the head surface and on these have a mounting bracket to tie down a fuel block (two piece) with injectors going into runners (in area where heat passage was). If the injectors need to be serviced, you merely unbolt the fuel block from the common tie down and pull upwards. This would allow a four hole throttle body so that a regular air cleaner could be used. It could be managed by a MUSTANG ECM and harness to keep the cost down. The 430 would go into a 52/54 MERC if I could find a fairly clean body. You live just across the Commodore Perry Bridge, correct? Why not just run U30 to Carlisle. I would be afraid someone would hit the '56 on the Turnpike. IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 01-10-2005 01:10 PM I have a picture of fuel injection manafold for y -block using 5.0 injectors ans troddle body can I e- mail them to somebody to post?? I can't post picts IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-10-2005 01:26 PM [email protected] Bob, I have this useless HOTMAIL and it will usually not allow more than one attachement per E-Mail. If there is more than one photo, you will need to send it on more than one E-Mail. Sorry... [This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 01-11-2005).] IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-11-2005 08:20 PM I got the photo Bob, but the file is so large I cannot post it here (and I am not good at resizing). Can anyone else help? IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-22-2005 05:06 AM This is the ALGON FI setup for the Y; Notice how it has under and over runners at the intake surface(s)? This unit is presently on E-BAY now if any one is interested. It can be converted to Electronic Fuel Injection. ------------------ I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 59/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968. Also older FORD Special Service Tools -MEL Engine Forum- IP: Logged
KULTULZ Gearhead Posts: 863 From: Rockville, MD Registered: Oct 2002	posted 01-22-2005 05:23 AM quote: Originally posted by Bob Hopkins: I have a picture of fuel injection manafold for y -block using 5.0 injectors ans troddle body can I e- mail them to somebody to post?? I can't post picts. quote: Originally posted by KULTULZ: I got the photo Bob, but the file is so large I cannot post it here (and I am not good at resizing). Can anyone else help? Until I am able to downsize the photo, the intake appears similiar to this one; The runners are siamesed as above with injectors inserted at the bottom of the runners (requires some thinking on the fuel rails). The main plenum is an inverted bowl shaped appearing affair with a single throat throttle body (and IAC) mounted with the opening towards that passenger side of the car. I will post the origional as soon as I am able to downsize it. IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 01-25-2005 02:44 PM Buy this intake trow the carbs under the bench and weld a plate to mount a late 5.0 injector to front ans a Vortech to compress the air IP: Logged
Bob Hopkins Gearhead Posts: 362 From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 01-26-2005 09:52 AM I guess it wouls help if i pasted the link ???? Damn I good with computers NOT http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34202&item=4521220196&rd=1 IP: Logged