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  90's PMGR small starter on older 302

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Author Topic:   90's PMGR small starter on older 302
Buddy
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-21-2003 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buddy   Click Here to Email Buddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
H, I'm getting conflicting stories on whether or not a 93 or 94 Ford PMGR starter will fit on a '78 302 with standard trans. Does anyone know for a fact whether it will work or not? I have a space problem between the pan and frame.

[This message has been edited by Buddy (edited 08-22-2003).]

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-24-2003 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Buddy,

I am looking at an older (2000) print FORD RACING CATALOG and they state that the low reduction starter of theirs will fit most 289/302/351W/351C engines except 164T manual trans.

The difference will be in the starter drive and the model your 302 came out of.

I am not sure as to the correct answer to your question but this may give you something to go on. Is the 302 possibly out of a MUST II?

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I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 58/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

[This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 08-24-2003).]

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Buddy
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-26-2003 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buddy   Click Here to Email Buddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, as a matter of fact it is a Mustang II engine and trans (RAD) does that make any difference? I also have a '78 C4 out of a Fairmont that I could use instead. Any help is appreciated, all I get from the parts people is that it won't work but some people are saying 'no problem, go for it'. Thanks.

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-26-2003 03:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The MUST II uses smaller flywheels and bellhousings to fit within the confines of the smaller trans tunnel and uses a 148T RG.

I am looking at the POWERMASTER listing in the current SUMMIT catalog and it lists a starter (PWM-9504/ 3/8" offset) that has no restrictions.

-POWERMASTER-

Excerpts

quote:
STEP 2

Fit

Why doesn?t the M/T Ford starter I have fit in the hole in the intermediate plate?

Of course for a starter to work, it must fit the application. Consider headers, oil pans, and the mounting points on the engine. In your Ford application, is your ring gear 3/8? from the engine plate - indicating a typical manual transmission starter - or is it closer to a 3/4? -requiring a typical auto transmission unit?

How tight are the headers around the starter? These are just some of the questions that will help you determine the right starter for your application.




quote:
The locating circle on the face of a Ford starter is made to different dimensions for manual and automatic transmissions. This keeps a person from mixing the two starters up since they look similar. If the starter does not fit in the hole in the intermediate plate, this indicates that a person either has the wrong starter or the wrong intermediate plate. Do not enlarge this hole or grind on the tsarter to make it fit, instead change the incompatible part. (Please note: Part # 9172 is for pre-1975 (auto) and pre 1980 (truck) manual transmissions ONLY. Part # 9162 is for automatic and 1975 and later (auto) and 1980 and later (truck) manual transmissions.)

quote:
For technical assistance not covered here, please contact our Tech Dept. at 865-544-0115, opt. 7 or email at [email protected]

I would give them a call for the final word. And then buy from SUMMIT or JEG'S to save money.


------------------
I am looking for information concerning factory performance/aftermarket speed parts (1958/1960) used on the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) (Also Thunderbird 58/60) Engine Series (383-410-430-462) produced from 1958 thru 1968.

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Buddy
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-26-2003 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buddy   Click Here to Email Buddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the help.

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-26-2003 06:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hope it was help...The more I look at it the more it sounds like aimless guessing...

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Buddy
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-27-2003 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buddy   Click Here to Email Buddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to confuse things even more..I went to a starter/alternator rebuild shop and asked about this and to see a PMGR starter. He said that it would work but to make sure that the 'nose' of the starter was the same ie. manuals have a short nose (1 3/4") and automatics have a long nose (2 1/8"). When I measured both starters I have they were both long nose and one was from my automatic 302 and the other was from my manual 302. Figure that out!!!

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1611
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-27-2003 01:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I`m not certain if the later starters were like that, but back in the late 70`s, I converted my 1970 351C 4v Mustang from a FMX automatic to a toploader 4 speed, and the stick starter was certainly different! When I tried to install my old automatic starter, the nose piece bottomed out in the bellhousing with the mounting flange about 1/4-3/8`s" away from the block plate. However, when I switched my 78 Fairmonts 302 from the original C4 to a T5 5speed, using a 88 Mustang 5.0 bellhousing, I was able to retain the same starter.

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78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker 302 5speed. soon to be under the index!
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 834
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 08-27-2003 02:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You also have light truck applications. The starter drive housings can be bought separately from FORD if you need to go that far. Did you talk to the PM techline?

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Buddy
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-27-2003 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buddy   Click Here to Email Buddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I'll just take my old one to the rebuild shop along with a ruler and calipers and double check everything. A rebuild PGMR is only $120, the Ford is $180 and the PowerMaster is $240 here so I'll go with the less expensive first. Thanks.

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