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Author Topic:   Installing timing gears...
Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-08-2001 01:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I am trying to install Edelbrock Accu-Drive timing gears in my '78 Cobra II (302 bored .030 over). Anyway the reason why I am putting in timing gears is because the timing chain jumped a tooth on the sprocket. I bought the gears to eliminate the chain alltogether. The problem is I really don't know how to align the cam gear with the crank gear properly. How do I do it? It shouldn't be hard putting in the idler gears but I want to make sure I have the cam gear and crank gear aligned properly, lol.. or it won't solve the timing problem. The harmonic balancer is off, the timing cover is off, the timing chain and cam gear is off. How should I proceed?

Thanks,

-Glenn

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77sleeper
Gearhead

Posts: 125
From: Mesa Arizona
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 11-08-2001 02:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 77sleeper   Click Here to Email 77sleeper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
there shoud be an index mark on the cam sprocket and one on the crank sprocket

line them up
the dot/line on the cam sprocket shoud be at 6 o'clock and the dot/line on the crank sprocket should be at 12 o'clock

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-08-2001 06:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So in other words I can't mess it up? hehehe..

Yes.. it's almost 6am and I am still up. I purchased a new book on ebay, the one you guys told me to buy named 'how to rebuild your small block ford'.

I am going to get 4 or 5 hours sleep and start on the engine.

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77sleeper
Gearhead

Posts: 125
From: Mesa Arizona
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 11-08-2001 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 77sleeper   Click Here to Email 77sleeper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well I am not going that far

real the book twice

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-08-2001 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am having trouble aligning the gears. Does the cam gear just sit freely on the camshaft!? There is no groove or anything really holding it in place. When I losen the bolt it just spins freely. As for getting the engine on TDC, there are no marks on the gears for me to tell if it is even near TDC. I was doing some reading and one site said if the timing gear is off just 1 tooth that will be more than 8 degrees of timing and it won't even run. Well ****... how do I align them if I can't even tell?

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-08-2001 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I put the timing chain back on and tightened it.. and I tried putting the harmonic balancer back on so I could set the engine to TDC but the damn thing won't go on all the way. I was hammering on it with a block of wood inbetween so the hammer wouldn't damage it. Why the f**k is the harmonic balancer so hard to get back on!!? I have had just about enough of this. I keep trying but the godd*mn thing is not cooperating with me. Please.. some advice?

Signed,

Mr. Angry

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Gearhead
Gearhead

Posts: 2164
From: Vancouver Island, Great Wet North
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-08-2001 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gearhead   Click Here to Email Gearhead     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've done the timing chain thing a couple of times on my 79, so hopefully I can help out here.

First, with the cam gear, there should be a pin that slots into a hole on the front of the cam. That pin engages with a hole in the timing gear and the fuel pump eccentric (if you are still running a mechanical pump). A side note to this, if you are currently using a 2-piece pump eccentric you must switch over to a 1-piece eccentric (Ford part #C3AZ-6287-B). This pin is what keeps the cam gear and eccentric from spinning freely on the end of the cam, so make sure it's long enough to engage both the timing gear AND the eccentric when pushed all the way back into the cam (ask me how I know to check that one ). Make sure you use some Loctite red on the cam bolt when you put it back on so that it doesn't back off eventually. The washer for the cam bolt should cover the pin so that it can't slip out the front of the timing gear. Torque it to spec.

There should be a mark or dot on the outer edge of the cam gear. Once the gear and eccentric are on and bolted into place use the bolt to rotate the cam around so this point is in the 6 o'clock position.

For the crank gear, spin the crank using a socket and long ratchet so that the mark on the crank gear is pointed straight up at 12 o'clock. You can even do this with the harmonic balancer off by just threading the nut that holds the balancer on into the crank, and using it to turn the crank (this can be made easier if you take the spark plugs out so there is no compression in the cylinders). Take the old crank gear off and slip the new one in place. They key on the crank should ensure that the gear is installed correctly.

Now you should have both cam and crank gears in place with the marks on each gear pointing at each other (6 o'clock on the cam gear and 12 o'clock on the crank gear). It should now simply be a case of slipping in the idler gears to finish up, and reinstalling everything.

For putting the harmonic balancer on it's easiest to snug it on as far as you can with your hands (lining it up with the key on the crank, of course) and then put in the bolt and cinch the balancer on the rest of the way with that. Make sure you have a good torque wrench and torque the balancer bolt to spec!

I hope that this helps a bit. Feel free to shoot me an email if you have any questions, ok.

------------------
Cheers,
Ian
M&M Member #395
-------------------
'79 Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car
Ian's Pace Car Website
Vancouver Island Mustang Association Website
Indy Pace Car Registry of Mustangs Official Website

"If you get to thinking you are someone of some importance and influence, just try ordering another persons dog around." - Author Unknown

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-08-2001 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great info!

I guess I need to buy a new pin. Where can I get one?

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Gearhead
Gearhead

Posts: 2164
From: Vancouver Island, Great Wet North
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-08-2001 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gearhead   Click Here to Email Gearhead     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Glenn_M:
Great info!

I guess I need to buy a new pin. Where can I get one?


Most machine shops or auto parts suppliers should be able to help you out there. Do you have your old pin still? I found that the easiest way to ensure I got on the right length was to measure the total depth using a thick piece of wire, or thin metal rod (whatever you have around). That way you will be sure to get the correct length first time.

When I did my rebuild a couple of years ago I didn't measure the depth and just used the pin sent with the new cam. Turns out it was too short and eventually disengaged from the eccentric, allowing it to spin and loosen the cam bolt (not to mention, not work the fuel pump). That one sure caused me some headaches to track down. So, I thought that I would pass that on so you don't suffer from the same mistake!

Good luck!

Cheers,
Ian

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-08-2001 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope. If I had the pin the new timing gears would be in

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MooseII78
Journeyman

Posts: 36
From: LA
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-09-2001 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MooseII78   Click Here to Email MooseII78     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ummm Glenn part of this pin is not still in the camshaft is it?

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-09-2001 09:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't see the pin anywhere.

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-10-2001 09:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My reply was deleted somehow. I am not going to re-type everything.

Anyway, the pin is welded on the fuel pump eccentric, lol. There was no separate pin. My mistake guys...

I'll let you know when I get the gears installed.

-Glenn

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-10-2001 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I took some pictures...

Cam gear and fuel pump eccentric

Hole in the camshaft where the eccentric pin goes

Cam gear and fuel pump eccentric in place


What I have to do is put on the new cam gear and put the fuel pump eccentric through it, put on the new crank gear, set the engine to TDC, put in the idler gears, and make sure the timing cover has proper clearance.

PS. I bought the 'how to rebuild your small block ford' book but I won't have it for a week. Can someone please do me a favor and look up the correct torque I have to put on the cam and crank bolts, and the timing cover bolts? I would really appreciate it. I want to torque the bolts down properly.

I am going to bed right now, I'll be up at 2:30cst (5 hours)

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-10-2001 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
lol.. as I was test fitting the new cam gear with thrust washer in place, the thrust washer slipped past me and fell in the oil pan. I guess I'll have to get a coat hanger and fish it out somehow...

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-10-2001 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I drained the oil and I got the washer out. I will have to do the gears tomorrow... since I spent most of my time fishing out the washer with a coat hanger.

By the way, what is the easiest way to get the crankshaft gear off? Do I need a puller, or can I work it off with a screwdriver or something?

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Gearhead
Gearhead

Posts: 2164
From: Vancouver Island, Great Wet North
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-11-2001 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gearhead   Click Here to Email Gearhead     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Glenn_M:
By the way, what is the easiest way to get the crankshaft gear off? Do I need a puller, or can I work it off with a screwdriver or something?

Best to use a puller if you can. You can usualy rent them, or borrow them from auto parts supply shops, such as Pep Boys or NAPA. Up here in Canada I can sign out tools such as these for free from Canadian Tire... I've saved a lot of money this way, not ending up buys a tool that I would only use once or twice in my life.

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-25-2001 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got the timing gears installed. I don't want to re-type it all, so just look at my post here:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89361&goto=lastpost

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Twister
Journeyman

Posts: 17
From: NE Ohio
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 11-26-2001 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Twister   Click Here to Email Twister     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

What's StangNet ???

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Glenn_M
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Texas
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 12-17-2001 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glenn_M   Click Here to Email Glenn_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Got the gears installed and they operate properly. They sound nice.

Having problems with my ignition now...

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