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Author Topic:   Smoking in your car
Ci8UUP
Gearhead

Posts: 631
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: May 2005

posted 11-29-2006 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ci8UUP        Reply w/Quote
So I seen a tidbit on the news that it's illegal in Louisiana to smoke in your car if children are in the car... what kind of f***-up law is that??? I also hear they are considering making it illegal inside your own home.

I'm no advocate of people smoking around their children, I just see it as another step towards the government having full control over what a parent does.

65darkhorse
Gearhead

Posts: 1282
From: east coast
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 11-29-2006 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65darkhorse        Reply w/Quote
Didn't you hear the latest ?? Its now illegal to post negative things about the government on the internet! Looks liek someones about to get shipped off to jail and held as a suspected terrorist ...

hwyman3
Gearhead

Posts: 2592
From: Southern Maryland, USA
Registered: Jul 2004

posted 11-29-2006 09:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hwyman3        Reply w/Quote
I saw a piece on the news about this last night. I didn't catch where they were talking about enacting the law against smoking in your home with children, but the person they were interviewing stated that the law would only apply to foster parents, since the children were under the care of the state and they viewed smoking around children as a form of abuse. Personally, if they consider smoking around children abuse, why would they place the children in a home like that? I mean if the foster parents committed physical abuse, they wouldn't place children there and say "You can't hit them."

The other question is, how do they plan on enforcing this?

------------------
Greg W.
M&M #3962 MCA #52100
2002 Laser Red GT Coupe The Highwayman 3
2006 F-150 STX Supercab 4x4
Southern Maryland Mustang Club
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/hwyman3.html

mustangs68
Moderator

Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: May 99

posted 11-29-2006 09:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangs68        Reply w/Quote
Thats why i got rid of my Kids!
Sam

68 Coop
Gearhead

Posts: 5847
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 11-29-2006 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 Coop        Reply w/Quote
I agree, I quit smoking well before my Son was born, and try to keep him away from it as much as possible. This is going too far, it's almost Communist to dictate what you do in your own house, as long as it's LEGAL. I got to be honest here though, if they never made another cigarette or tobacco product, it wouldn't piss me off. Alcohol either.

------------------
William
M&M# 4256
MCA# 64831

68 Coupe
289
C4
3:55's/Trac-Lok

Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 11-30-2006 07:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 68 Coop:
I got to be honest here though, if they never made another cigarette or tobacco product, it wouldn't piss me off. Alcohol either.

Yeah, it would likely make for a healthier society, but unfortunately, I sure wouldn't want to have to cough up the "makeup $$" due to the loss of tax monies to the State/Feds as the result of the lack of sales tax and 'sin tax' monies that are currently being collected on the backs of tobacco and alcohol... There's WAY TOO MUCH $$$$ made off of the two products to end their legal sales.

Eventhough the State/Feds pay to run Public Service Announcements (PSAs) telling all of us to stop smoking and to 'drink responsibly' and they pay subsidies to some of the farmers that grow tobacco, it is only a small fraction of the gobs of mula they collect on those products...

Ryan

indyphil
Gearhead

Posts: 3394
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 11-30-2006 07:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for indyphil        Reply w/Quote
I agree that I think its a bit much to enact a law that states no smoking in the car with your kids.

But it ought to be obvious that its a terrible thing to do. Im not one of these anti-spanking folks either, but smoking in a car confining that smoke and making your kids breath it too is just mean.

My parents smoked when I was growing up. if you dont think second hand smoke is bad for you know two things:
1) both family dogs we had (indoor dogs) died of cancer, in both cases it was in the throat/lungs both dogs died young.
2) When I got to high school and tried smoking, I was the only kid that didnt cough or feel sick when I smoked my first cigarette... Because I had been smoking my whole life thanks to my parents...

Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 11-30-2006 12:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68        Reply w/Quote
Personally I think that 99% of the secondhand smoke scare is phooey. There was even a serious (?) scientific study once that said you were more likely to get cancer from secondary smoke than you were from primary smoke.
In any case, I don't know a single smoker who doesn't open the car window when he's smoking.
I'm a smoker and wish I wasn't. But America has just gone nuts about the whole issue.

[This message has been edited by Fastback68 (edited 11-30-2006).]

mustangs68
Moderator

Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: May 99

posted 11-30-2006 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangs68        Reply w/Quote
When I smoke in the truck I have the sunroof open about 6 inches,what ticks me off is when someone who is a passenager rolls down their window and really screws up the air flow causing the smoke to cross the cab and exit out thier window..

If they just leave the damn window alone the smoke would go right out my sunroof!

Sam

SUBMARINER MUSTANGER
Gearhead

Posts: 1474
From: Grandview, Missouri
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-30-2006 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SUBMARINER MUSTANGER        Reply w/Quote
If a society (Louisiana) is stupid enough to smoke in an enclosed area (like a car) with their children present, then they deserve to have laws enacted to prevent them from damaging the health of their children. Obviously, this is a problem, so a law was created to counter it.

I see nothing wrong with it. If you're not breaking the law, then you have nothing to worry about.

------------------
MustangsandMore Member #91
MCA Member #61863


Past Mustangs: 2003 Mach 1-11/7/06'84 GT 5-speed; '91 GT auto; '70 M-code Mach 1, grabber yellow; '95 GT-S 5 speed, green, wrecked and totalled; 1995 GT-S 5 speed, bright yellow; '94 6-banger, wifes; '89 LX 5.0 vert, '90 LX 5.0 hatch, '69 M-code Mach 1, 4 speed, 1990 5.0 LX 'vert w/ AOD converted to T-5.

[This message has been edited by SUBMARINER MUSTANGER (edited 11-30-2006).]

cookie_monster
Journeyman

Posts: 70
From: south, central, us
Registered: Nov 2005

posted 11-30-2006 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cookie_monster        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ci8UUP:
So I seen a tidbit on the news that it's illegal in Louisiana to smoke in your car if children are in the car... what kind of f***-up law is that??? I also hear they are considering making it illegal inside your own home.

I'm no advocate of people smoking around their children, I just see it as another step towards the government having full control over what a parent does.


That law has been in effect for quite some time just a state north of La. A girl I used to date pretty seriously...was a smoker. Last year when the law went into effect, she decided that it was the 'last straw' and decided to quit smoking.

Ci8UUP
Gearhead

Posts: 631
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: May 2005

posted 12-01-2006 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ci8UUP        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SUBMARINER MUSTANGER:
If a society (Louisiana) is stupid enough to smoke in an enclosed area (like a car) with their children present, then they deserve to have laws enacted to prevent them from damaging the health of their children. Obviously, this is a problem, so a law was created to counter it.

I see nothing wrong with it. If you're not breaking the law, then you have nothing to worry about.


You can't be serious with your last paragraph?
It's not about breaking the law, it's about the enactment. This isn't like some criminal pondering his/her next felony and the sentencing range just got harsher.

So I suppose if they make it against the law for example, to feed your kids greasy hamburgers, then you have nothing to worry about if you don't take them to mcdonalds?

It's ludicrous.

If that parent wanted to harm their child with second hand smoke, they would lock themself and the child in their own home in a closet and light-up a carton and the government can't do squat how the law is currently written; But suddenly smoking in a car with the child puts them in some different kind of grave danger??? ha

SUBMARINER MUSTANGER
Gearhead

Posts: 1474
From: Grandview, Missouri
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-01-2006 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SUBMARINER MUSTANGER        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ci8UUP:

So I suppose if they make it against the law for example, to feed your kids greasy hamburgers, then you have nothing to worry about if you don't take them to mcdonalds?


What if the sky fell?? The greasy hamburger analagy is a "what if".

I understand you're upset with the "enactment" of this particular law, but in MY opinion, if a law is enacted for the protection of someone or something, then that's a good thing, and I have no problem with it. That's really all I was saying.

------------------
MustangsandMore Member #91
MCA Member #61863


Past Mustangs: 2003 Mach 1-11/7/06'84 GT 5-speed; '91 GT auto; '70 M-code Mach 1, grabber yellow; '95 GT-S 5 speed, green, wrecked and totalled; 1995 GT-S 5 speed, bright yellow; '94 6-banger, wifes; '89 LX 5.0 vert, '90 LX 5.0 hatch, '69 M-code Mach 1, 4 speed, 1990 5.0 LX 'vert w/ AOD converted to T-5.

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-01-2006 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike        Reply w/Quote
It really is true that some people have no respect for the safety of their children. They will smoke in their cars with their kids present. They will smoke in their houses, etc.

As far as smoking inside the house... I've gone in MANY houses that smell little better than some bars. Some houses, especially if they belong to a chain smoker, or if more than one person lives there... smell REALLY bad!

As far as the window in the car comment. Cracking a window in the car lets -some- of the smoke out. A passenger opening another window is simply trying to clear the air a little more. I guess if it doesn't work, they just have to sit there and suffer through it.

Most smokers don't realize just how nasty cigarettes really are.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

hwyman3
Gearhead

Posts: 2592
From: Southern Maryland, USA
Registered: Jul 2004

posted 12-01-2006 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hwyman3        Reply w/Quote
Let me preface this with the disclosure that I am an ex-smoker.

While there may be good intentions with this law, we cannot legislate a person to be a responsible parent.

What bothers me with this law is a person's home and/or their car is just that, theirs! It is private property. I have no right to tell you what to do with your home or car anymore than you have the right to tell me what to do with it. As I said before, I see the good intentions here, but it's also another infringment on private property rights.

------------------
Greg W.
M&M #3962 MCA #52100
2002 Laser Red GT Coupe The Highwayman 3
2006 F-150 STX Supercab 4x4
Southern Maryland Mustang Club
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/hwyman3.html

indyphil
Gearhead

Posts: 3394
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 12-01-2006 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for indyphil        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hwyman3:
What bothers me with this law is a person's home and/or their car is just that, theirs! It is private property. I have no right to tell you what to do with your home or car anymore than you have the right to tell me what to do with it.

Thats not entirely true
Your not allowed to abuse or neglect children on your own property or in your car. Criminal behaviour is not tolerated simply because you own the property and you consider it "private".

The extension here that is making people upset here is that smoking in your car with your children is "abuse" or in some way neglecting or endangering them (and therefore criminal).

Children do need protecting by the law. You dont need a license to raise children and theres no written test. if we didnt have child abuse laws we would have no way of locking up the bad people who commit some terrible things.

The question here is: Smoking in a car with your kids, is it so bad that it constitutes harm/abuse to your kids?

You could make very similar arguments about the ban on smoking in restaurants in some states. The restaraunts should be free to regulate it themselves.

but if second hand smoke in resaurants was so bad, and if smoking in the car with your kids is so bad... then you can see the next step... No more smoking in your own home if you have kids in the house...

I think the car law goes a little too far.

But imagine if you found someone sitting in a car (say a parking lot) and was smoking in the car with no windows open. Young kid in the back seat is coughing his lungs out and then pukes up. I'd be upset and Id give that person a piece of my mind for sure. I would describe that behaviour as "neglectful" and would imagine the courts would see it that way too. It crosses the line between potential harm (based on long term exposure) to immediate harm and distress.

As with everything its not black and white there are shades of gray, but something I would let the cops and the courts decide in each induvidual case, without needing a law enacted to ban it outright.

hwyman3
Gearhead

Posts: 2592
From: Southern Maryland, USA
Registered: Jul 2004

posted 12-01-2006 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hwyman3        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by indyphil:
Your not allowed to abuse or neglect children on your own property or in your car. Criminal behaviour is not tolerated simply because you own the property and you consider it "private".

The extension here that is making people upset here is that smoking in your car with your children is "abuse" or in some way neglecting or endangering them (and therefore criminal).


I agree with you on this point that you are legally not allowed to abuse a child, even though you are on private property. Therefore, if we are going to consider smoking around a child to be abuse, then don't we already have laws on the books to cover this?

As I said before, there is just no way to eentirly legislate responsible parenting, nor is there a way to legislate a parent to care.

------------------
Greg W.
M&M #3962 MCA #52100
2002 Laser Red GT Coupe The Highwayman 3
2006 F-150 STX Supercab 4x4
Southern Maryland Mustang Club
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/hwyman3.html

honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 12-01-2006 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst        Reply w/Quote
so what we're going to end up doing is rigging a "bong" type of attachment in our cars to hide the cigarette from the view of your city's finest.....a piece of vacuume line running from the ashtray (where the cigarette is hidden).....with a drinking straw attached to the end so the officer thinks you're drinking a soda.......

we'll do this the same way we hide radar detectors and cell phones (no, I don't have a radar detector and I DO pull over when I have to use the cell phone).....

Speaking from a smoker's perspective......

Bryan

indyphil
Gearhead

Posts: 3394
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 12-01-2006 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for indyphil        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hwyman3:
Therefore, if we are going to consider smoking around a child to be abuse, then don't we already have laws on the books to cover this?

yes, that I agree with. I feel like the courts should be able to decide if what you are doing is harmful without enacting new laws. for my example (windows shut, causing obvious distress) would already constitute neglect or abuse without the need for additional laws.

The debate is about the long term harm caused by more casual contact with 2nd hand smoke, while no obvious short term effects or distress are evident.

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-01-2006 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback68:
Personally I think that 99% of the secondhand smoke scare is phooey.

The smokers have a right to smoke. The non-smokers have the right to clean air. The non-smoker's right to clean air does no harm to the smoker. The same can't be said for the smoker's right to use cigarettes in the presence of non-smokers.

On the street where in-laws live, there is a household where the wife chain-smoked inside the house, and the husband was a non-smoker. Two years ago, the husband died of lung cancer. The wife is still alive. That house smells NASTY! I went in there once, and just wanted to turn around and leave.

I am SO glad I never took up that habit. It just seems brainless to send the government and big tobacco around $100/month EVERY month for the rest of my life for the 'priviledge' of smoking cigarettes. There are WAY better ways to spend that money... like car parts.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-01-2006 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke        Reply w/Quote
PEOPLE, PEOPLE,,,,I'VE GOT THE ANSWER!!!!

Let's put this problem on the Automakers!!!!

Just as laws have been passed to require new vehicles to be equipped with automated tire pressure monitors (because drivers are too irresponsible to do check the tire pressure themselves) and stability control (since too many drivers apparently can't seem to understand that they shouldn't drive their SUV like their Mustang),,,, Let's mandate that all new cars be equipped with a smoke detector and some sort of automatic smoke-extracting system! The smokers could smoke and the passengers are safe!

Hmmmm,,,, There could be a local exhaust vent located just above the ash tray and a exhaust vent above the smoking passenger's head....or all the windows are automatically opened 1/2 way down until the smoke is cleared, then they'd automatically go back up again...
Huh, huh,,,, what do ya's think?!

Ryan

honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 12-01-2006 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst        Reply w/Quote
I'll buy that !!!

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2006 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
My solution is my patented 'smoker self-contained personal environment' which consists of a large inverted goldfish bowl with custom cigarette holder and Viton {TM} neck seal.

<---former smoker

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

fred
Gearhead

Posts: 184
From: berea ky
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 12-01-2006 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fred        Reply w/Quote
Hi,
The reason that the government has to intervene is simple. PEOPLE ARE TO STUPID OR IRRESONSIBLE to do the right thing , there are numerous statistics about second hand smoke let alone since the 60s the surgeon general has warned of the health risk of smoking, so I do not see what the stink is about, trying to protect our most valuable asset our children is a must.

Ci8UUP
Gearhead

Posts: 631
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: May 2005

posted 12-01-2006 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ci8UUP        Reply w/Quote
1. They're not "our" children, they belong to someone else. If I told you how I think your child should eat because it's "our children" you would surely put me in my place.

2. This law has nothing to do with adolescent safety, it is just another vehicle by which the government can further enforce and expand their nazi domain.

Pretty funny how the physical well being of the child is the red herring here, but those same lawmakers have no problem granting adoption rights to a homosexual couple.

SUBMARINER MUSTANGER
Gearhead

Posts: 1474
From: Grandview, Missouri
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-01-2006 11:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SUBMARINER MUSTANGER        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ci8UUP:
it is just another vehicle by which the government can further enforce and expand their nazi domain.


Huh?? I don't think it's that bad! This law isn't going to turn us into an "Axis of Evil" country.

------------------
MustangsandMore Member #91
MCA Member #61863


Past Mustangs: 2003 Mach 1-11/7/06'84 GT 5-speed; '91 GT auto; '70 M-code Mach 1, grabber yellow; '95 GT-S 5 speed, green, wrecked and totalled; 1995 GT-S 5 speed, bright yellow; '94 6-banger, wifes; '89 LX 5.0 vert, '90 LX 5.0 hatch, '69 M-code Mach 1, 4 speed, 1990 5.0 LX 'vert w/ AOD converted to T-5.

[This message has been edited by SUBMARINER MUSTANGER (edited 12-02-2006).]

Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 1821
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002

posted 12-02-2006 12:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster        Reply w/Quote
Everyone has made some very good points. However, it's not the government?s job to control everything we do in our daily lives. I don't smoke. I did when I was younger and quit when I was in my mid 20's. Nevertheless, it still isn't the government?s job to invade our daily lives with laws like this.

Even when I did smoke I never did it in a confined area with my kids, or anyone else for that matter, were around. It?s not the government?s job to be that intrusive. IMHO, they should be passing laws to put REAL bad guys in jail and quit messing with the general pubic.

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 12-02-2006).]

SUBMARINER MUSTANGER
Gearhead

Posts: 1474
From: Grandview, Missouri
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-02-2006 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SUBMARINER MUSTANGER        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Buster:

IMHO, they should be passing laws to put REAL bad guys in jail and quit messing with the general pubic.


[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 12-02-2006).]


Define "REAL BAD GUY". Not to sound argumentative here, but you don't think some careless parent (or guardian) driving down the road smoking cigarettes in an enclosed vehicle with their children present, who are unable to get a breath of fresh air, isn't a bad person?? They may not be a bad person, but just a stupid person, and there should be laws for the stupid people out there.

You see, this whole topic hits close to home for me. One of the worst memories of my childhood is of me and my two sisters having to put up with BOTH of my parents smoking in the car. This was back in the '70's when smoking was "cool". That's THE #1 reason why I never took up the habit. I dreaded having to go anywhere with my parents, and as I grew older (teens), where I started to give a $hit about what I smelled like, I remember asking my Mom not to smoke while we went somewhere, and she would give me the meanest look, like what business was it of mine to tell her what to do. (BTW, she died last year of lung cancer).

So, this "LAW" makes total sense to me. Children can't act on their own behalf because they are children. Someone has to look out for them. If their stupid idiotic parents aren't going to do it, then I guess the government has to.

I can understand what Ci8UUP and a couple of other guys are trying to say about governmental involvement and how far they will go, and I'm sure if there was something the government did that urked me, I'd feel the same way, but as far as this No Smoking law goes, more power to the government!!

------------------
MustangsandMore Member #91
MCA Member #61863


Past Mustangs: 2003 Mach 1-11/7/06'84 GT 5-speed; '91 GT auto; '70 M-code Mach 1, grabber yellow; '95 GT-S 5 speed, green, wrecked and totalled; 1995 GT-S 5 speed, bright yellow; '94 6-banger, wifes; '89 LX 5.0 vert, '90 LX 5.0 hatch, '69 M-code Mach 1, 4 speed, 1990 5.0 LX 'vert w/ AOD converted to T-5.

[This message has been edited by SUBMARINER MUSTANGER (edited 12-02-2006).]

68 Coop
Gearhead

Posts: 5847
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 12-02-2006 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 Coop        Reply w/Quote
What purpose does tobacco serve? NONE. It's a drug that's more addictive than Heroin, but yet it's packaged and sold like gold. Besides getting you hooked on nicotine, killing you slowly, and the Fed's and cigarette companies making money on it, it's a worthless product. I find it hard to believe that this Law will pass, and even if it does, how will they go about enforcing it?

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 12-02-2006 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
I agree with people that don't like the infringment of our rights, but you have to remember that everyone has rights. A child has rights, too. Like a child can't legally agree to have sex, a child cannot agree to consent to breathe cigarette smoke or not. That's why we have statutory rape laws, and that's we're going to have laws prohibiting stuffing kids in contained boxes and subjecting them to smoke inhalation.

Remember the old saying "Your right to wave your fist in the air ends where another person's nose begins" meaning your right to enjoy a smoke is not more important than your child's right to breahe fresh air until he is old enough to decide to wreck his own health.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 12-02-2006 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 68 Coop:
What purpose does tobacco serve? NONE

okay.......let's flip flop here........the people in the government says we're running low on oil.......so.........they pass a law saying if your car doesn't get 20mpg.......(or even 15mpg).........you can't drive it anymore..........OR.....emmissions......what if they say every car must pass THE SAME inspection to receive a "regular" tag.....what purpose does a classic Mustang serve, other than personal enjoyment......give one to a 16 y/o who can't handle the power, and it'll kill someone faster than 2nd hand smoke......hmmmmm.....only people with at least 20 years of driving experience, and who can pass a written exam on the year they want to own.....and a hands-on driving safety test can own one ???

how would we feel about that........the government has too much control already......there's too many "stupid" laws on the books that simple common sense would take care of......but because of defense lawyers (no offenese to any member here who is one) getting people off because of a technicality, we have to put it on paper and have a vote, then it becomes a "law".....

It's like being read the Miranda rights.....hell boy......you were put in handcuffs by a uniformed officer of the law......how did you not know you were under arrest ???........anything you say...etc....that's common sense also....your buddies at work use it against you.....why can't the lawyers....

too many laws.......too many lawyers......

to steal a line from an Eagles song...."the more I think about it 'ol Billy (Shakespeare) was right.....let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight" (figuratively speaking of course)


okay.......I'm done........go ahead and rip me a new one guys *lol*.........sorry

68 Coop
Gearhead

Posts: 5847
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 12-02-2006 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 Coop        Reply w/Quote
My Mustang serves a purpose, it gets me to work, supermarket, and everywhere else I need to go. Name me ONE good thing tobacco does Bryan.

EDIT: Also, if you teach your Kid responsibility, he can drive the Mustang just as easy as the 05 whatever brand. I don't believe a Kid should have to inhale second hand smoke either, and if the Law comes into effect 50 state wide, it don't piss me off. I just don't see, realistically, how they will enforce it, when they rarely catch stoner's cruising around smoking joints.

[This message has been edited by 68 Coop (edited 12-02-2006).]

Bulldog66
Journeyman

Posts: 96
From: Lake City, Fl.
Registered: Nov 2006

posted 12-02-2006 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bulldog66        Reply w/Quote
I know technology has come a long way in the last ~40 years. I also know that there is no doubt some kind of health risk to second hand smoke.

However.

It was not long ago ( ok, 30 years, but, long as in in my life )that when I visited the family doctor, he'd have a smoke while I was in the room with him. The nurses station was cloudy from the folks taking 5 to grab a smoke before the next person.

This doctor treated my family. More so, he treated my Grandmother in her mid - late years.

I'm as healthy ( besides the obvious Football and eventually OTJ accident ) as the next person. My Grandma was over 90 when she died.

I guess what I am saying here is...

Until the in your face, drive by media and tree thumpers decided to get their time in the lights, this was never realy an issue.

Folks lived to 100, Grandma fought you for the last bit of chaw in the pouch. Grandpa had the pipe that never went out amazingly etc.

But now, god forbid if someone farts upwind. You'd think the friggin fart police we're right behind you.

IMO, of course.

------------------
66' A code 289 Coupe.
95' F250 5.8 on 6" of Rancho lift and 35" MT Baja's.
06' Explorer - wifes truck.

capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 8777
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-02-2006 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man        Reply w/Quote
bulldawg, i think you hit the nail right on the head!!
have you ever noticed that the biggest complainers are the ex-smokers??
also it really did not bother many people untill the media and the government told us that it did!!
btw i am an ex smoker but i feel like if you want to smoke, that is your right and if i dont want to be around it, i can get away from you. ok let the flames begin!!

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.25 @93mph 1/8
1.54 60ft 50 % of the fun dragracing is meeting people who will give you the shirt off their back to wipe the grease off your hands.
M&M member #839 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/mike470/adel2.jpg

Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 1821
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002

posted 12-03-2006 12:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SUBMARINER MUSTANGER:
Define "REAL BAD GUY".

Real Bad Guys are the one?s robbing, killing and attacking our country, etc?

What I'm saying is it's not the governments job to control our lives on a daily bases, it's up to the parent in this case. Some parents make good choices and some bad.

When I was younger my dad smoked in the car and in the house as well. Today, I can?t stand the smell of smoke and even when I did smoke I never did in the house.

Nevertheless, I still don?t think it?s the government?s responsibility to tell us how to live our lives on any level. Some parents let their kids do things I would never consider letting my kids do that?s completely legal. That?s where the ?Darwin? affect kicks in. And every generation it gets better with education and not the government micromanaging our daily lives.


btw, I think if our parents would have been educated back then about this I'm sure they would have done things differently without government involvement.

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 12-03-2006).]

honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 12-03-2006 01:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 68 Coop:
Name me ONE good thing tobacco does Bryan.

they keep me from going off on non-smokers

THAT WAS A JOKE

sorry......I couldn't resist Coop.......please forgive me ???

honeyburst
Gearhead

Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 12-03-2006 01:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for honeyburst        Reply w/Quote
seriously though........too many laws.....

I'm not saying it's good, or bad.....just that it shouldn't be the government's decision.

My wife and I both smoke. Until October of last year, we went outside EVERY TIME we smoked. Then my wife had her accident and was put into a wheelchair (temporarily)....and couldn't go outside every time.....so, she started smoking in the bedroom.......and I joined her.......

My name's Bryan and I'm addicted to cigarettes (HI BRYAN)....I know I'm addicted because of how I am when I'm forced to do without for longer than a couple of hours.......I REALLY don't think anybody would want to be on the interstate with me if I couldn't smoke *smile*.......yes, we ALWAYS open the windows.....and I know that doesn't get out 100% of the smoke, but we DO exhale towards the window......we actually make a special effort to blow it that way so it won't stay in the car/van.........

so, should I (and my wife) who are there for every skinned knee, every school play, every thunderstorm, every meal, every birthday and holiday, who love our kids.....dearly.....be considered criminaly negligent and risk having our kids taken away because we smoke ???.......should we quit smoking.....yes, I agree we should.........(it's harder than you think, and for those reading this who have quit, I sincerely APPLAUD you for having more will power than I do).....for those of you who have never smoked, you have no room to talk about "just quitting".....it ain't that easy (yes, I said -ain't-)........I suppose it will either take a MAJOR scare from a doctor's checkup or some other life-changing event to get me to quit......hell, I almost quit a month ago when I was fighting bronchitis (sp?)......but as soon as I could inhale again, I'm back up to my usual 3/4 pack a day......

okay....I'm done........this board has been GREAT to me......I hope I haven't really ticked some people off or made any enemies because of my opinion........I'm content to agree to disagree

[This message has been edited by honeyburst (edited 12-03-2006).]

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 12-03-2006 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by honeyburst:
okay....I'm done........this board has been GREAT to me......I hope I haven't really ticked some people off or made any enemies because of my opinion........I'm content to agree to disagree

Nope, that's what makes this board work so well. This is a place when a member can give his opinion, we all toss in our perspectives on it, and we move on.

We tolerate no flaming, and no grudges are held. Sure, we kid each other and hopefully people take it in the playful way it's intended, but what we've tried to create here at M&M is a sort of internet lounge, or as I like to think of it, it's like we're all sitting in lawn chairs in my garage {or your garage, we're using the mind's eye here} and we shooting the bull, drinking beers, or coffee, or soda or whatever and telling tales and having a good time.

And Alex farts a lot.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

68 Coop
Gearhead

Posts: 5847
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 12-03-2006 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 Coop        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by honeyburst:
they keep me from going off on non-smokers

[b]THAT WAS A JOKE

sorry......I couldn't resist Coop.......please forgive me ???

[/B]


It's all good! I understand exactly where you are Bryan, I smoked for years before I met the GF I have now, and it got to be more of a PITA than it was worth to hear her complain about me stinking of smoke. I'm not nicotine free, in fact I'm probably worse off now than before, I dip Skoal. It's a hard, hard habit/addiction to walk away from. I think the lawmakers are back asswards on a lot of things though, they legalize things they know to kill you (cigs and booze), and are too stubborn on others (bud) that have been proven to cause you no harm what so ever.

Toronado3800
Gearhead

Posts: 1163
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-04-2006 01:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Toronado3800        Reply w/Quote
I feel sorry for everyone who smokes. Just another addictive habit with no upside I'm glad I never caught.

That said, whatever you do in your own home to yourself, I don't care. Heck, I'm really for legalizing all kinds of drugs, and then sending you up the river if you even jay walk while stoned or drunk. Just, be men about it and don't throw your butts out the window unless I can dump my acid leaking AA batteries in your yard. We shouldn't believe how special our mommies told us we are, so do unto others...

Its amazing I ever started drinking and haven't entirely stopped. Gotta work on that cost / benefit analysis again.

indyphil
Gearhead

Posts: 3394
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 12-04-2006 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for indyphil        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ci8UUP:

...it is just another vehicle by which the government can further enforce and expand their nazi domain.

Pretty funny how the physical well being of the child is the red herring here, but those same lawmakers have no problem granting adoption rights to a homosexual couple.


CI8UUP,
I agree with you on your main point that the smoking law is unessecary, but I want to highlight something I see a lot from so called "conservatives"

The "too many laws" argument gets wheeled out anytime a law is made when it doesnt fit their agenda. Gun laws, environmental laws etc... labels like Tree hugger get thrown around.

BUT, (and Im using your quote because you mentioned gay adoption) the double standard starts when the same people - often in the same breath - want to creat new laws to support their religious agenda. Gay marriage ammendments, no alcohol on sundays, no alcohol period, no stores open on sundays... Not to mention abortion laws or stem cell debate, or school curriculum (creationism). When it fits their agenda they lawyer up and lobby up just like the "tree huggers"

Im not taking sides, but you cant have it both ways, small government should be small EVERYWHERE. Nazi, big government gets big everywhere. The Nazi's didnt just persecute jews, but they commited the same crimes to Gay people. In the same post you acused the government of being "Nazi" then supposed that Gay people cant be trusted... You have to see the irony there.

You have to trust adoption agencies to make good choices, just the same as you would have to trust parents to make good choices regarding smoking in cars.

indyphil
Gearhead

Posts: 3394
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 12-04-2006 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for indyphil        Reply w/Quote
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20061204/cm_usatoday/smokingbandriftstoofar

Ci8UUP
Gearhead

Posts: 631
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: May 2005

posted 12-04-2006 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ci8UUP        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by indyphil:
CI8UUP,
I agree with you on your main point that the smoking law is unessecary, but I want to highlight something I see a lot from so called "conservatives"

The "too many laws" argument gets wheeled out anytime a law is made when it doesnt fit their agenda. Gun laws, environmental laws etc... labels like Tree hugger get thrown around.

BUT, (and Im using your quote because you mentioned gay adoption) the double standard starts when the same people - often in the same breath - want to creat new laws to support their religious agenda. Gay marriage ammendments, no alcohol on sundays, no alcohol period, no stores open on sundays... Not to mention abortion laws or stem cell debate, or school curriculum (creationism). When it fits their agenda they lawyer up and lobby up just like the "tree huggers"

Im not taking sides, but you cant have it both ways, small government should be small EVERYWHERE. Nazi, big government gets big everywhere. The Nazi's didnt just persecute jews, but they commited the same crimes to Gay people. In the same post you acused the government of being "Nazi" then supposed that Gay people cant be trusted... You have to see the irony there.

You have to trust adoption agencies to make good choices, just the same as you would have to trust parents to make good choices regarding smoking in cars.


Perhaps I should have prefaced my argument before spewing, sorry. The homosexual comment has very little to do with morality. It doesn't take a psychiatrist to figure out that in most cases a child needs two parents, a father and a mother to be raised properly and grow up without huge baggage. Two mothers or two fathers doesn't work, the child needs nurturing from each gender.

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