The other question is, how do they plan on enforcing this?

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William
M&M# 4256
MCA# 64831

quote:

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Originally posted by 68 Coop:
I got to be honest here though, if they never made another cigarette or tobacco product, it wouldn't piss me off. Alcohol either.

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Yeah, it would likely make for a healthier society, but unfortunately, I sure wouldn't want to have to cough up the "makeup $$" due to the loss of tax monies to the State/Feds as the result of the lack of sales tax and 'sin tax' monies that are currently being collected on the backs of tobacco and alcohol... There's WAY TOO MUCH $$$$ made off of the two products to end their legal sales.

Eventhough the State/Feds pay to run Public Service Announcements (PSAs) telling all of us to stop smoking and to 'drink responsibly' and they pay subsidies to some of the farmers that grow tobacco, it is only a small fraction of the gobs of mula they collect on those products...

But it ought to be obvious that its a terrible thing to do. Im not one of these anti-spanking folks either, but smoking in a car confining that smoke and making your kids breath it too is just mean.

If they just leave the damn window alone the smoke would go right out my sunroof!

I see nothing wrong with it. If you're not breaking the law, then you have nothing to worry about.

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MustangsandMore Member #91
MCA Member #61863

Past Mustangs: 2003 Mach 1-11/7/06'84 GT 5-speed; '91 GT auto; '70 M-code Mach 1, grabber yellow; '95 GT-S 5 speed, green, wrecked and totalled; 1995 GT-S 5 speed, bright yellow; '94 6-banger, wifes; '89 LX 5.0 vert, '90 LX 5.0 hatch, '69 M-code Mach 1, 4 speed, 1990 5.0 LX 'vert w/ AOD converted to T-5.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ci8UUP:
So I seen a tidbit on the news that it's illegal in Louisiana to smoke in your car if children are in the car... what kind of f***-up law is that??? I also hear they are considering making it illegal inside your own home.

I'm no advocate of people smoking around their children, I just see it as another step towards the government having full control over what a parent does.

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quote:

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Originally posted by SUBMARINER MUSTANGER:
If a society (Louisiana) is stupid enough to smoke in an enclosed area (like a car) with their children present, then they deserve to have laws enacted to prevent them from damaging the health of their children. Obviously, this is a problem, so a law was created to counter it.

I see nothing wrong with it. If you're not breaking the law, then you have nothing to worry about.

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You can't be serious with your last paragraph?
It's not about breaking the law, it's about the enactment. This isn't like some criminal pondering his/her next felony and the sentencing range just got harsher.

So I suppose if they make it against the law for example, to feed your kids greasy hamburgers, then you have nothing to worry about if you don't take them to mcdonalds?

It's ludicrous.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ci8UUP:

So I suppose if they make it against the law for example, to feed your kids greasy hamburgers, then you have nothing to worry about if you don't take them to mcdonalds?

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I understand you're upset with the "enactment" of this particular law, but in MY opinion, if a law is enacted for the protection of someone or something, then that's a good thing, and I have no problem with it. That's really all I was saying.

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MustangsandMore Member #91
MCA Member #61863

As far as smoking inside the house... I've gone in MANY houses that smell little better than some bars. Some houses, especially if they belong to a chain smoker, or if more than one person lives there... smell REALLY bad!

As far as the window in the car comment. Cracking a window in the car lets -some- of the smoke out. A passenger opening another window is simply trying to clear the air a little more. I guess if it doesn't work, they just have to sit there and suffer through it.

Most smokers don't realize just how nasty cigarettes really are.

While there may be good intentions with this law, we cannot legislate a person to be a responsible parent.

What bothers me with this law is a person's home and/or their car is just that, theirs! It is private property. I have no right to tell you what to do with your home or car anymore than you have the right to tell me what to do with it. As I said before, I see the good intentions here, but it's also another infringment on private property rights.

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Originally posted by hwyman3:
What bothers me with this law is a person's home and/or their car is just that, theirs! It is private property. I have no right to tell you what to do with your home or car anymore than you have the right to tell me what to do with it.

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Thats not entirely true
Your not allowed to abuse or neglect children on your own property or in your car. Criminal behaviour is not tolerated simply because you own the property and you consider it "private".

The extension here that is making people upset here is that smoking in your car with your children is "abuse" or in some way neglecting or endangering them (and therefore criminal).

Children do need protecting by the law. You dont need a license to raise children and theres no written test. if we didnt have child abuse laws we would have no way of locking up the bad people who commit some terrible things.

The question here is: Smoking in a car with your kids, is it so bad that it constitutes harm/abuse to your kids?

You could make very similar arguments about the ban on smoking in restaurants in some states. The restaraunts should be free to regulate it themselves.

but if second hand smoke in resaurants was so bad, and if smoking in the car with your kids is so bad... then you can see the next step... No more smoking in your own home if you have kids in the house...

I think the car law goes a little too far.

But imagine if you found someone sitting in a car (say a parking lot) and was smoking in the car with no windows open. Young kid in the back seat is coughing his lungs out and then pukes up. I'd be upset and Id give that person a piece of my mind for sure. I would describe that behaviour as "neglectful" and would imagine the courts would see it that way too. It crosses the line between potential harm (based on long term exposure) to immediate harm and distress.

quote:

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Originally posted by indyphil:
Your not allowed to abuse or neglect children on your own property or in your car. Criminal behaviour is not tolerated simply because you own the property and you consider it "private".

The extension here that is making people upset here is that smoking in your car with your children is "abuse" or in some way neglecting or endangering them (and therefore criminal).

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I agree with you on this point that you are legally not allowed to abuse a child, even though you are on private property. Therefore, if we are going to consider smoking around a child to be abuse, then don't we already have laws on the books to cover this?

As I said before, there is just no way to eentirly legislate responsible parenting, nor is there a way to legislate a parent to care.

we'll do this the same way we hide radar detectors and cell phones (no, I don't have a radar detector and I DO pull over when I have to use the cell phone).....

Speaking from a smoker's perspective......

quote:

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Originally posted by hwyman3:
Therefore, if we are going to consider smoking around a child to be abuse, then don't we already have laws on the books to cover this?

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yes, that I agree with. I feel like the courts should be able to decide if what you are doing is harmful without enacting new laws. for my example (windows shut, causing obvious distress) would already constitute neglect or abuse without the need for additional laws.

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Originally posted by Fastback68:
Personally I think that 99% of the secondhand smoke scare is phooey.

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The smokers have a right to smoke. The non-smokers have the right to clean air. The non-smoker's right to clean air does no harm to the smoker. The same can't be said for the smoker's right to use cigarettes in the presence of non-smokers.

On the street where in-laws live, there is a household where the wife chain-smoked inside the house, and the husband was a non-smoker. Two years ago, the husband died of lung cancer. The wife is still alive. That house smells NASTY! I went in there once, and just wanted to turn around and leave.

I am SO glad I never took up that habit. It just seems brainless to send the government and big tobacco around $100/month EVERY month for the rest of my life for the 'priviledge' of smoking cigarettes. There are WAY better ways to spend that money... like car parts.

Let's put this problem on the Automakers!!!!

Just as laws have been passed to require new vehicles to be equipped with automated tire pressure monitors (because drivers are too irresponsible to do check the tire pressure themselves) and stability control (since too many drivers apparently can't seem to understand that they shouldn't drive their SUV like their Mustang),,,, Let's mandate that all new cars be equipped with a smoke detector and some sort of automatic smoke-extracting system! The smokers could smoke and the passengers are safe!

Hmmmm,,,, There could be a local exhaust vent located just above the ash tray and a exhaust vent above the smoking passenger's head....or all the windows are automatically opened 1/2 way down until the smoke is cleared, then they'd automatically go back up again...
Huh, huh,,,, what do ya's think?!

<---former smoker

2. This law has nothing to do with adolescent safety, it is just another vehicle by which the government can further enforce and expand their nazi domain.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ci8UUP:
it is just another vehicle by which the government can further enforce and expand their nazi domain.

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MustangsandMore Member #91
MCA Member #61863

Past Mustangs: 2003 Mach 1-11/7/06'84 GT 5-speed; '91 GT auto; '70 M-code Mach 1, grabber yellow; '95 GT-S 5 speed, green, wrecked and totalled; 1995 GT-S 5 speed, bright yellow; '94 6-banger, wifes; '89 LX 5.0 vert, '90 LX 5.0 hatch, '69 M-code Mach 1, 4 speed, 1990 5.0 LX 'vert w/ AOD converted to T-5.

Even when I did smoke I never did it in a confined area with my kids, or anyone else for that matter, were around. It?s not the government?s job to be that intrusive. IMHO, they should be passing laws to put REAL bad guys in jail and quit messing with the general pubic.

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Originally posted by Buster:

IMHO, they should be passing laws to put REAL bad guys in jail and quit messing with the general pubic.

[This message has been edited by Buster (edited 12-02-2006).]

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You see, this whole topic hits close to home for me. One of the worst memories of my childhood is of me and my two sisters having to put up with BOTH of my parents smoking in the car. This was back in the '70's when smoking was "cool". That's THE #1 reason why I never took up the habit. I dreaded having to go anywhere with my parents, and as I grew older (teens), where I started to give a $hit about what I smelled like, I remember asking my Mom not to smoke while we went somewhere, and she would give me the meanest look, like what business was it of mine to tell her what to do. (BTW, she died last year of lung cancer).

So, this "LAW" makes total sense to me. Children can't act on their own behalf because they are children. Someone has to look out for them. If their stupid idiotic parents aren't going to do it, then I guess the government has to.

I can understand what Ci8UUP and a couple of other guys are trying to say about governmental involvement and how far they will go, and I'm sure if there was something the government did that urked me, I'd feel the same way, but as far as this No Smoking law goes, more power to the government!!

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MustangsandMore Member #91
MCA Member #61863

Past Mustangs: 2003 Mach 1-11/7/06'84 GT 5-speed; '91 GT auto; '70 M-code Mach 1, grabber yellow; '95 GT-S 5 speed, green, wrecked and totalled; 1995 GT-S 5 speed, bright yellow; '94 6-banger, wifes; '89 LX 5.0 vert, '90 LX 5.0 hatch, '69 M-code Mach 1, 4 speed, 1990 5.0 LX 'vert w/ AOD converted to T-5.

Remember the old saying "Your right to wave your fist in the air ends where another person's nose begins" meaning your right to enjoy a smoke is not more important than your child's right to breahe fresh air until he is old enough to decide to wreck his own health.

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Originally posted by 68 Coop:
What purpose does tobacco serve? NONE

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okay.......let's flip flop here........the people in the government says we're running low on oil.......so.........they pass a law saying if your car doesn't get 20mpg.......(or even 15mpg).........you can't drive it anymore..........OR.....emmissions......what if they say every car must pass THE SAME inspection to receive a "regular" tag.....what purpose does a classic Mustang serve, other than personal enjoyment......give one to a 16 y/o who can't handle the power, and it'll kill someone faster than 2nd hand smoke......hmmmmm.....only people with at least 20 years of driving experience, and who can pass a written exam on the year they want to own.....and a hands-on driving safety test can own one ???

how would we feel about that........the government has too much control already......there's too many "stupid" laws on the books that simple common sense would take care of......but because of defense lawyers (no offenese to any member here who is one) getting people off because of a technicality, we have to put it on paper and have a vote, then it becomes a "law".....

It's like being read the Miranda rights.....hell boy......you were put in handcuffs by a uniformed officer of the law......how did you not know you were under arrest ???........anything you say...etc....that's common sense also....your buddies at work use it against you.....why can't the lawyers....

too many laws.......too many lawyers......

to steal a line from an Eagles song...."the more I think about it 'ol Billy (Shakespeare) was right.....let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight" (figuratively speaking of course)

okay.......I'm done........go ahead and rip me a new one guys *lol*.........sorry

EDIT: Also, if you teach your Kid responsibility, he can drive the Mustang just as easy as the 05 whatever brand. I don't believe a Kid should have to inhale second hand smoke either, and if the Law comes into effect 50 state wide, it don't piss me off. I just don't see, realistically, how they will enforce it, when they rarely catch stoner's cruising around smoking joints.

However.

It was not long ago ( ok, 30 years, but, long as in in my life )that when I visited the family doctor, he'd have a smoke while I was in the room with him. The nurses station was cloudy from the folks taking 5 to grab a smoke before the next person.

This doctor treated my family. More so, he treated my Grandmother in her mid - late years.

I'm as healthy ( besides the obvious Football and eventually OTJ accident ) as the next person. My Grandma was over 90 when she died.

I guess what I am saying here is...

Until the in your face, drive by media and tree thumpers decided to get their time in the lights, this was never realy an issue.

Folks lived to 100, Grandma fought you for the last bit of chaw in the pouch. Grandpa had the pipe that never went out amazingly etc.

But now, god forbid if someone farts upwind. You'd think the friggin fart police we're right behind you.

IMO, of course.

quote:

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Originally posted by SUBMARINER MUSTANGER:
Define "REAL BAD GUY".

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Real Bad Guys are the one?s robbing, killing and attacking our country, etc?

What I'm saying is it's not the governments job to control our lives on a daily bases, it's up to the parent in this case. Some parents make good choices and some bad.

When I was younger my dad smoked in the car and in the house as well. Today, I can?t stand the smell of smoke and even when I did smoke I never did in the house.

Nevertheless, I still don?t think it?s the government?s responsibility to tell us how to live our lives on any level. Some parents let their kids do things I would never consider letting my kids do that?s completely legal. That?s where the ?Darwin? affect kicks in. And every generation it gets better with education and not the government micromanaging our daily lives.

btw, I think if our parents would have been educated back then about this I'm sure they would have done things differently without government involvement.

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Originally posted by 68 Coop:
Name me ONE good thing tobacco does Bryan.

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they keep me from going off on non-smokers

THAT WAS A JOKE

sorry......I couldn't resist Coop.......please forgive me ???

I'm not saying it's good, or bad.....just that it shouldn't be the government's decision.

My wife and I both smoke. Until October of last year, we went outside EVERY TIME we smoked. Then my wife had her accident and was put into a wheelchair (temporarily)....and couldn't go outside every time.....so, she started smoking in the bedroom.......and I joined her.......

My name's Bryan and I'm addicted to cigarettes (HI BRYAN)....I know I'm addicted because of how I am when I'm forced to do without for longer than a couple of hours.......I REALLY don't think anybody would want to be on the interstate with me if I couldn't smoke *smile*.......yes, we ALWAYS open the windows.....and I know that doesn't get out 100% of the smoke, but we DO exhale towards the window......we actually make a special effort to blow it that way so it won't stay in the car/van.........

so, should I (and my wife) who are there for every skinned knee, every school play, every thunderstorm, every meal, every birthday and holiday, who love our kids.....dearly.....be considered criminaly negligent and risk having our kids taken away because we smoke ???.......should we quit smoking.....yes, I agree we should.........(it's harder than you think, and for those reading this who have quit, I sincerely APPLAUD you for having more will power than I do).....for those of you who have never smoked, you have no room to talk about "just quitting".....it ain't that easy (yes, I said -ain't-)........I suppose it will either take a MAJOR scare from a doctor's checkup or some other life-changing event to get me to quit......hell, I almost quit a month ago when I was fighting bronchitis (sp?)......but as soon as I could inhale again, I'm back up to my usual 3/4 pack a day......

okay....I'm done........this board has been GREAT to me......I hope I haven't really ticked some people off or made any enemies because of my opinion........I'm content to agree to disagree

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Originally posted by honeyburst:
okay....I'm done........this board has been GREAT to me......I hope I haven't really ticked some people off or made any enemies because of my opinion........I'm content to agree to disagree

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Nope, that's what makes this board work so well. This is a place when a member can give his opinion, we all toss in our perspectives on it, and we move on.

We tolerate no flaming, and no grudges are held. Sure, we kid each other and hopefully people take it in the playful way it's intended, but what we've tried to create here at M&M is a sort of internet lounge, or as I like to think of it, it's like we're all sitting in lawn chairs in my garage {or your garage, we're using the mind's eye here} and we shooting the bull, drinking beers, or coffee, or soda or whatever and telling tales and having a good time.

And Alex farts a lot.

quote:

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Originally posted by honeyburst:
they keep me from going off on non-smokers

[b]THAT WAS A JOKE

sorry......I couldn't resist Coop.......please forgive me ???

[/B]

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That said, whatever you do in your own home to yourself, I don't care. Heck, I'm really for legalizing all kinds of drugs, and then sending you up the river if you even jay walk while stoned or drunk. Just, be men about it and don't throw your butts out the window unless I can dump my acid leaking AA batteries in your yard. We shouldn't believe how special our mommies told us we are, so do unto others...

quote:

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Originally posted by Ci8UUP:

...it is just another vehicle by which the government can further enforce and expand their nazi domain.

Pretty funny how the physical well being of the child is the red herring here, but those same lawmakers have no problem granting adoption rights to a homosexual couple.

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CI8UUP,
I agree with you on your main point that the smoking law is unessecary, but I want to highlight something I see a lot from so called "conservatives"

The "too many laws" argument gets wheeled out anytime a law is made when it doesnt fit their agenda. Gun laws, environmental laws etc... labels like Tree hugger get thrown around.

BUT, (and Im using your quote because you mentioned gay adoption) the double standard starts when the same people - often in the same breath - want to creat new laws to support their religious agenda. Gay marriage ammendments, no alcohol on sundays, no alcohol period, no stores open on sundays... Not to mention abortion laws or stem cell debate, or school curriculum (creationism). When it fits their agenda they lawyer up and lobby up just like the "tree huggers"

Im not taking sides, but you cant have it both ways, small government should be small EVERYWHERE. Nazi, big government gets big everywhere. The Nazi's didnt just persecute jews, but they commited the same crimes to Gay people. In the same post you acused the government of being "Nazi" then supposed that Gay people cant be trusted... You have to see the irony there.

quote:

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Originally posted by indyphil:
CI8UUP,
I agree with you on your main point that the smoking law is unessecary, but I want to highlight something I see a lot from so called "conservatives"

The "too many laws" argument gets wheeled out anytime a law is made when it doesnt fit their agenda. Gun laws, environmental laws etc... labels like Tree hugger get thrown around.

BUT, (and Im using your quote because you mentioned gay adoption) the double standard starts when the same people - often in the same breath - want to creat new laws to support their religious agenda. Gay marriage ammendments, no alcohol on sundays, no alcohol period, no stores open on sundays... Not to mention abortion laws or stem cell debate, or school curriculum (creationism). When it fits their agenda they lawyer up and lobby up just like the "tree huggers"

Im not taking sides, but you cant have it both ways, small government should be small EVERYWHERE. Nazi, big government gets big everywhere. The Nazi's didnt just persecute jews, but they commited the same crimes to Gay people. In the same post you acused the government of being "Nazi" then supposed that Gay people cant be trusted... You have to see the irony there.

You have to trust adoption agencies to make good choices, just the same as you would have to trust parents to make good choices regarding smoking in cars.

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