Brought to you in part by:

M&M Restoration & Tool Supply Store

Great deals on auto restoration supplies!

.


NOTICE! The old Mustangsandmore.com is a read-only archive.
Currently the Search function is inoperative, but we are working on the problem.

Please join us at our NEW Mustangsandmore.com forums located at this location.
Please notice this is a brand new message board, and you must re-register to gain access.

  Mustangsandmore Forum Archive
  Sam's Place
  Maybe they should make showing up to work Job1

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Maybe they should make showing up to work Job1
senzstang
Gearhead

Posts: 530
From: perry, oh, usa
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-24-2006 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for senzstang        Reply w/Quote
This is just disgusting:

http://www.newsnet5.com/money/9560980/detail.html

Dave Gibson
Moderator

Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99

posted 07-24-2006 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Gibson        Reply w/Quote
I recently attend a Transition and Assitance Program for folks in the military that are getting out or retiring. Several representatives from large corporations told us that they are looking for employees that can show up to work on time and even offer cash incentives to have good attendance through out the year. Talk about an eye opener.

Dave & Terri

------------------
'65 Mustang Fastback
'66 Mustang Coupe
'02 Explorer XLT
Common sense isn't common anymore.

mustangs68
Moderator

Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: May 99

posted 07-24-2006 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangs68        Reply w/Quote
I show up on time but I leave early
Sam

Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-24-2006 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz        Reply w/Quote
This is a fact of life around here. We have had many guys ask "do I have to be to work at or before 10am every day?" We have only had two guys show up on time or a little early in the last 10 years. The others are late at least once a week. The other small business people I talk have the same problem. I'm here about 30min before we open and some times 2 hours after we close.

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics

14.05 @ 102mph

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-24-2006 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
One of the many reasons the developing world is eating our lunch. Blame it on the unions, if workers were easier to fire and replace they wouldn't act like that.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

Ci8UUP
Gearhead

Posts: 631
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: May 2005

posted 07-24-2006 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ci8UUP        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
One of the many reasons the developing world is eating our lunch. Blame it on the unions, if workers were easier to fire and replace they wouldn't act like that.


I think that's an unfair finger to point. Union membership in the United States only accounts for less than 10% of the workforce, add that to the ongoing decimation of the manufacturing sector and the converse rise in the service sector and you're probably looking at less than 5% union membership by 2010.

I'm thinking it's probably more attributable to the Gen Y's (aka Echo boomers) who are now entering the workforce and their work ethic is quite different than previous generations, and for some unknown reason American business is tailoring to them rather than making them abide by the rules. Like it or not, there is a serious culture shift going on and the echo boomers are in control.

Another contributing factor to America's now poor attendance was the Family and Medical Leave Act, as well as labor lawsuits. People can take all kinds of time off and cannot be fired if they qualify (which isn't hard to do).

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-24-2006 07:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
But in auto plants like this aren't the workers nearly 100% unionized? {At least in the big three}

I agree with you about the massive shift in work ethic having spent a decent portion of my life supervising people, I've seen a tremendous change in worker attitude. {and that's an understatement!}

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 8777
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-24-2006 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
One of the many reasons the developing world is eating our lunch. Blame it on the unions, if workers were easier to fire and replace they wouldn't act like that.


amen buddy!! and like you said we are just talking about this one (big union) plant, not the whole usa!!

------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.25 @93mph 1/8
1.54 60ft 50 % of the fun dragracing is meeting people who will give you the shirt off their back to wipe the grease off your hands.
M&M member #839 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/mike470/adel2.jpg

Ci8UUP
Gearhead

Posts: 631
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: May 2005

posted 07-24-2006 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ci8UUP        Reply w/Quote
Steve you are correct, the assembly (skilled tradesman) jobs are 100% union. But I'll betcha the percentage of union jobs at the plant is far below 60%. At my company for instance, the union workforce only makes up about 30% of entire workforce, if that. And we are a manufacturing company!

Another tidbit about unions, the basic rules with unions is: show up every day on time, obey the company rules and you cannot be fired, even for working at a snails pace.

adragon8u
Gearhead

Posts: 5867
From: Oceano, Ca. member# 2895
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 07-24-2006 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for adragon8u        Reply w/Quote
nowadays if you fire someone, you run the the risk of a lawsuit for stupid thinks like nepotism or harassment or such. we had a guy that was a drag a** about everything he did, but if you said anything he'd come back with "sure, pick on the Mexican". couple that with a lawyer that will take on any case no matter how ridiculous it may seem and you've opened the door for this kind of behavior. Just my 2 cents.

------------------
"Be yourself
everyone else is taken"
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/adragon8u.html

exlocal
Gearhead

Posts: 1552
From: hacienda hts., CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 07-24-2006 10:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for exlocal        Reply w/Quote
This is one of my pet peeves about work. I never call in sick, unless I'm sick, which I haven't been in over 10 years out of 34 years now. The only time I'm late is when my car breaks down as I leave early enough so as not to have to rush incase of traffic or other things. My fellow co-workers who are chronically late are the ones that live the closest to work...go figure.

------------------
fsm

senzstang
Gearhead

Posts: 530
From: perry, oh, usa
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-24-2006 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for senzstang        Reply w/Quote
I am not blaming this on unions. It is just sad that a plant that is fighting for existence has 25% no shows for work! We all know Ford is in a bad place. If my current employer was as bad a Ford, I would make sure I was at work early, leaving late, and billing for less hours than I was there!!!!!!

I spend my days trying not to lose my current business to China. I have VERY little respect for people who spit in the face for thier employer while their jobs are in jeopardy.

Sorry if that is harsh. These people have no respect. I am emberassed to be from the same area as they are.

Phil

senzstang
Gearhead

Posts: 530
From: perry, oh, usa
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-24-2006 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for senzstang        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by senzstang:
I am not blaming this on unions. It is just sad that a plant that is fighting for existence has 25% no shows for work! We all know Ford is in a bad place. If my current employer was as bad a Ford, I would make sure I was at work early, leaving late, and billing for less hours than I was there!!!!!!

I spend my days trying not to lose my current business to China. I have VERY little respect for people who spit in the face for their employer while their jobs are in jeopardy.

Sorry if that is harsh. These people have no respect. I am embarrassed to be from the same area as they are.

Phil


Ci8UUP
Gearhead

Posts: 631
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: May 2005

posted 07-25-2006 12:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ci8UUP        Reply w/Quote
Originally posted by senzstang:
I would make sure I was at work early, leaving late, and billing for less hours than I was there!!!!!!

That isn't too smart. Nothing wrong with being early and leaving late, but not getting paid for it isn't the right answer. You work, you expect to get paid; taking time off your card isn't going to save Ford, it might in a small shop but not in a corporation. Ford's problems go way deeper than labor rates.

67stang
Gearhead

Posts: 2687
From: Panama City, FL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-25-2006 09:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67stang        Reply w/Quote
I work... And every week make a different amount each hour... It all depends on how many hours I work. I get paid hourly, up til 40 hours... But I CANNOT just leave at 40, my job must be done.

Unions are no help to the American Work Force anymore, but I don't think getting rid of them will solve these problems. Might solve some, but not these...

The American People are getting lazy, and they have no work ethics. That is where the problem lays.

And the ease of loosing your pants if you fire someone for not doing their job is just too high. But most times, this can be beaten by simple documentation. But the documentation is not kept up to date, so the problem cannot be proven other than "he said, she said"...

senzstang
Gearhead

Posts: 530
From: perry, oh, usa
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-25-2006 11:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for senzstang        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ci8UUP:
Originally posted by senzstang:
I would make sure I was at work early, leaving late, and billing for less hours than I was there!!!!!!

That isn't too smart. Nothing wrong with being early and leaving late, but not getting paid for it isn't the right answer. You work, you expect to get paid; taking time off your card isn't going to save Ford, it might in a small shop but not in a corporation. Ford's problems go way deeper than labor rates.



A little exageration for effect there. The point I was trying to make was simply that if your company is in as much trouble as Ford, slacking off is not the way to go.
You should be doing everything in your power to do your job well and help in anyway you can.

I was raised to work hard. I simply cannot understand this mentality.

[This message has been edited by senzstang (edited 07-25-2006).]

hwyman3
Gearhead

Posts: 2592
From: Southern Maryland, USA
Registered: Jul 2004

posted 07-25-2006 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hwyman3        Reply w/Quote
The big 3 (ok, 2 + Mercedes-Chrysler) are at a disadvantage since almost all of their plants are Union. The Japanesse manufacturers were smart when they built plants over here by building in economically depressed areas. They paid a decent wage and would have a work-force that would just be happy to have a job. The bifggest mistake I see that the UAW made was not to go in and try to unionize the Japanesse plants.

------------------
Greg W.
M&M #3962 MCA #52100
2002 Laser Red GT Coupe The Highwayman 3
1991 F-150 XLT 4x2 5.0 Ole Faithful
Southern Maryland Mustang Club
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/hwyman3.html

pmhvps
Gearhead

Posts: 734
From: Burlington,ON,Canada ,in the heart of the Golden Horseshoe.
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 07-25-2006 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pmhvps        Reply w/Quote
I love how the media can take a rumor (now word is) and create this kind of frenzy, especially toward Unions.... (A big roll eyes) Do you think that was their intention?

Mike.

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-25-2006 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
My feeling from unions is from watching their impact on our economy over the past 30+ years or so. Add unions to governmental regulations, ridiculous health care and benefits costs and sprinkle worker apathy and you have a system where industry can't survive.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

trashline
Gearhead

Posts: 2230
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 07-25-2006 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trashline        Reply w/Quote
Ive never heard anything good come from a Union that would help a company grow. At my place of employeement the old company had unions. These slugs were supposed to start at 7 am. Meaning ont he floor running parts at 7 am. They would come in bs with everyone for 30 minutes cook there breakfast and eat till 8am then work there way out to the shop floor. One guy wouldnt do anything but push a button and read a book. Total waste of moneys that could go elsewhere.

Now we have a guy about 30 who just leaves and works when he wants making enough to pay for his benefits. Since our company is small it is hard to get enough experiance on the inspection CMM. They are all pretty new but him. Last week he didnt call or show up wed,thurs, he called friday and said he was sick. Today he left before lunch time. Without inspection we cant get first articles checked and parts finished off the CNC's. Since were small we cant pay enough to get someone with experiance in there.

Il admit Im not always on time BUT I dock my own hours we do have a 7 minute grace period but If im more then a couple minutes I take 15 minutes off. Im usually there before and after my time just like Phil I dont charge that extra 15 minutes when I leave seven minutes after the hour. I feel better about myself helping the company.

When I worked at the school we had a black women who would use the racial line all the time, but everything was documented and they nailed her.

What is this world coming too? global warming, poor ethics, down hill to me!!

------------------
88 thunderbird TC 2.3L
Gillis at 18 psi, walbro fuel pump, Kirban afpr, 3.73 8.8" rear, rebuilt head, Ranger roller, .48/.60 T3 with clipped wheel, ported elbow, 3 in exhuast, FMIC

66 mustang V8 swap baby

68 Fairlane 289 w/ auto
rusting away motor is going in the mustang

Ci8UUP
Gearhead

Posts: 631
From: Renton, Washington
Registered: May 2005

posted 07-25-2006 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ci8UUP        Reply w/Quote
Another problem seems to be there is no justice in the labor market these days, just take a look at the flip side... a dedicated employee will come in every day, work his/her ass off, do more than what is expected of them, never come in late/leave early, save the company money with innovative cost cutting ideas, and the employer will turn right around and give that employee their walking papers because he found out he could save a few dimes by offshoring that job. It happens every day and I've seen many dedicated workers hold resentment because of it.

We, American business and the American worker need to find common ground and quick.

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-26-2006 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ci8UUP:
We, American business and the American worker need to find common ground and quick.

Too late. Americans aren't even willing to buy our own products, so who will?

The forces I mentioned a couple posts up have already decided that America is no longer the place to have anything of value manufactured. Our labor costs are too high, our work force too filled with a sense of entitlement, governmental restrictions border on the absurd, lawyers are too plentiful and eager to file papers on anything with potential of making a quick buck, medical and benefits costs are out of control, executive get paid bizarrely inflated stacks of money... need I go on?

Contrast that to foreign countries begging our corporations to build plants on their soil by offering fairly-educated workers willing to work for basically nothing for long hours in areas where nobody even knows about child labor laws or foolish things like OSHA or EPA {being sarcastic}, offering tax holidays of sometimes 20 years, sometimes forever, in fact some countries like Singapore, for example, will even give the land and pay for the construction of the plants to lure some of our high-tech industries!

There are three BILLION new workers entering the world's work force in this generation, 800,000 in China alone, and the vast majority of these people will have a higher education level than our high school grads, at least the dwindling amount of our kids we can persuade to stay in school long enough to get a high school diploma {check the stats on that some time, you will be shocked! Some parts of our country have more drop-outs than grads!}, and these workers in other lands are THRILLED for the chance to work 60-70 hours a week for less than $3.00/hr!

No, manufacturing is dead in the US, long before we in this generation will be. The US will be a service-based economy. Like I said before, our two main commercial entities will be fast food and weight loss clinics.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

wrksnfx
Gearhead

Posts: 427
From: Warren,MI,Macomb
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 07-27-2006 03:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wrksnfx        Reply w/Quote
All I can say is that I am a son of a retired Ford employee and every job I have ever had and even while in school I have always had perfect attendance but even that can't get me into Fords or elsewhere around here I can't even get a job thanks to the fact that most companies these day do a credit check and if you have bad credit guess what you don't get the job NO JOKE.

And I am still looking for work since graduating in 2004.

[This message has been edited by wrksnfx (edited 07-27-2006).]

pmhvps
Gearhead

Posts: 734
From: Burlington,ON,Canada ,in the heart of the Golden Horseshoe.
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 07-27-2006 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pmhvps        Reply w/Quote
I can't argue with you Steve on any of your points. As we see good paying jobs go overseas, that were hard fought for, who will be supporting those foreign manufactured products? Can we all get by on $8.00 to $10.00 per? Will our kids? Something is going to pop. Most likely happen in America first.(last time the European economy collapse started the tumble) As it stands now, most people are content but, as things worsen, desperate people do desperate things. History tells us that, the 30's 40's Unions boomed. Most say they are not needed now (and a quagmire of other things) but as good paying jobs disappear,people lose their homes they will look for answers, or perhaps, someone to blame.
Mike.


Just, a side note: I am nearing the completion of MacMaster's Labour Studies Program and continuing studies for my B.A. in Labour. It is forecast, no later than 2018, (if things remain on the path they are)a Depression (govn't's hate that word) will hit the modern world as we know it, making the 30's look like a Grand Ball.

SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-27-2006 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere        Reply w/Quote
I think there will be a radical shift in the style of life we enjoy now. I bet credit will be reeled in quite a bit and a lot of the luxuries we take for granted now will become memories. One example is that when I was a kid in the '60s and '70s, I never knew anyone that bought a new car. They were rare. And most houses had only one car in the driveway. The only people that had boats were people that fished for a living.

As people start losing their $20-30/hr jobs at GM or Ford and start selling China wares at Walmart for $8/hr you will stop seeing the Escalades and start seeing more people buying $8,000 Chinese made Crap-o-matics and any company that provides non-essentials like snowmobiles, jet-skis, hot-tubs, or vacation packages will dry up and blow away.

I sincerely believe hard times are coming. Retirement will become a thing of the past, 95% of Americans have as much financial sense as a 4 year old. We are living in the first generation of mankind whose children will end up worse off, standard-of-living-wise than they are.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Mustangsandmore Front Page

Copyright 2006, Steve LaRiviere. All Rights Reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

[Build a free Mustangsandmore.ws Home Page!]

[Posting Pictures]

[About M&M][Members' Pics]

[M&M Conventions] [M&M Mug Shots] [Tech Articles]

[M&M Bookstore] [M&M Restoration & Tool Supply Store]