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Author Topic:   Big D or other artists...painting help
68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-15-2005 08:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Didn't know where to post this, so here it is.

I'm doing a little "no budget" paint job and I have a couple of questions.

I am going to have two different colors separated by pinstriping when it's finished(hopefully). One color will be a pattern separated by the pinstriping from the rest of the body panel which will be another color.

What I need to know is: Do I paint the pattern color first, then mask off and spray the main color, or the other way around? If it matters, the background (main) color is dark, and the pattern color is light.

Also, I bought the pinstriping thinking I would use it to put the pattern on for masking and then remove it and re-stripe the finished product. Am I all washed up? I couldn't find a masking tape that was narrow enough. It's going to be a freehand pattern and it needs to make bends and curves. I don't know how hard it's going to be to peel off the pinstriping though.

Any hints will be appreciated.

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-15-2005 09:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First thing you should do before any thing else is email BigD. He's spent a lot of time painting.

Email, [email protected]

I'd say lay down the base color first. Then lay down your top color. Once done you can color sand the line where the two color meet. To get ride of the ridge.

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc.

My Pics

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whiteknight289
Gearhead

Posts: 1348
From: Wheaton, IL, USA
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 03-15-2005 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for whiteknight289   Click Here to Email whiteknight289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You need a masking tape product know as 'fine line' tape. It comes either in a blue vinyl or a dull green smooth paper-like material, and has various widths, I think down to as small as 1/8" or 1/4". I think the regular pinstripe tape will have too much adhesive and be difficult to remove.
If you paint your smaller pattern area first, it will be easier to mask it off to paint the larger entire vehicle second.
Scott

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-15-2005 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okily dokily.

Yeah I was hoping Big D was gonna pop in and give some advice.

I'll have to see if I can find some of that tape now.


Thanks guys.

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1718
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 03-15-2005 11:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not sure i quite understand what you are wanting to do, but here is what i think.

My thought is you are doing something like a solid base color, with pinstriping seperating that from say a checkered flag pattern that you are putting on the rest of the car, OR you are making a pattern in a soild top coat that you are outlining in the pinstriping (your basic flame job).

I think either way, i would do the pattern part last, but as mentioned it might be more of a pain to mask it that way.

you said your base is dark, and the pattern is light, dark usually covers light easier than light covers dark.

If you are using a single stage paint and you are planning on striping it, you could roll the tape edge so you have a smoother transition, since you are covering it with the stripe anyway, that way you won't have a depth difference that you might see through the striping, if you are clearing it then that's not an issue.

I'm no expert though, i would consider myself a novice at best

[This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 03-15-2005).]

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-15-2005 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Joe,,

I agree with what everyone else is saying.. Any Auto paint shop should have the 3M Fine Line Tape.. I even saw it in 1/2"..

We've always:
1. laid down the base coat
2. tape your graphics,, flames,, or two tone line,, and cover/mask the the new base coat with tape and paper
3. paint the taped off area
4. Pull the tape and paint clear coate over everything..

By the way.. How's your foot..

------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-15-2005 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Big D:
Hey Joe,,

I agree with what everyone else is saying.. Any Auto paint shop should have the 3M Fine Line Tape.. I even saw it in 1/2"..

We've always:
1. laid down the base coat
2. tape your graphics,, flames,, or two tone line,, and cover/mask the the new base coat with tape and paper
3. paint the taped off area
4. Pull the tape and paint clear coate over everything..

But if your small area is light,, I'd probably paint it first,, like Dubz says..

By the way.. How's your foot..


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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-15-2005 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OOPS..

Just got back from the Basque Dinner House.. Too many Pecan Punches..

------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-16-2005 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey thanks guys.

What I'm doing is sprucing up my lawn tractor.

Dubz guessed it right, I'm going to try and flame it. Just wish Big D was here to get the flames on it.

I'm gonna paint it FORD blue(says it right on the can) with yellow flames. I bought some black pinstriping to outline the flames when its done.

So I should probably paint the yellow first,huh?

Just not sure if I'm gonna be able to get the flame pattern on it.

Do they make a spray can clear coat?

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-16-2005 12:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yeah...as far as the foot...I should go back to the doc...gf won't let me do my own surgery.

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-16-2005 02:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you are doing flames..

Paint the Base Color (Blue) First.. Then tape the design on top of the Blue.. If you paint a coat of White before the Yellow,, it will make the yellow brighter..

Basically follow the steps I put down in the previous post..

------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

[This message has been edited by Big D (edited 03-16-2005).]

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-16-2005 03:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes,, they do make clear in paint cans.. If you using acryllic paint,, make sure you get acryllic clear..

Here's some flames I painted on my Thermos a couple of weeks ago.. Painted the Blue - Taped the flames and masked off all the blue area I didn't want painted yellow - painted the yellow,, hit the tips with a little red - pulled the tape off and sprayed clear over the entire painted area..


I just wanted to make sure which thermos was mine.. If you notice the dings,, I didn't do any body work first..

------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-16-2005 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's too cool.

That's pretty much the same thing I want to do to the garden tractor, same colors too.

Well, thanks for the advice, and if it turns out decent, I'll post some pics.

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mustangs68
Moderator

Posts: 22320
From: Buckroe Beach Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: May 99

posted 03-16-2005 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangs68   Click Here to Email mustangs68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm about to hijack...LOL

Don I have had several people ask me where I got that shirt

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-16-2005 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do I got the new shirt.
My dad will love it thanks

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc.

My Pics

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-16-2005 11:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mustangs68:
I'm about to hijack...LOL

Don I have had several people ask me where I got that shirt


Tell them they are FOR SALE and give them my email address.. I am looking at buying a 4 or 6 color silk screening machine..

I've taken digital pics of all the shirts I've created.. (and named the flame after the person I gave it to..) I can take that picture,, work it over in Corel Draw/PhotoPaint,, cut the flame out and make color seperations of the flames ready for printing..

They will be part of my catalog of prints available.. Trust me,, I am getting quite the selection..

What's cool is someone can mix & match sleeves,, chest,, what ever they want.. Or I can create a custom shirt,, but it will soon be for a price $$$..

So,, someone could actually have copies of Sam's Place Printed..

------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-17-2005 08:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well...

So far so good. Got the rest of the old paint off this morning, sanded, washed, and base coat on(Ford Blue). Took a trip to NAPA(they had the fine line tape). Came home and spent about 3 hours putting on the pattern and masking it off. Wow, talk about tedious.

Anyway, the flames will get sprayed tomorrow. If it was still a little warmer I would have done it tonight.

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-17-2005 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Masking everything off SUCKS..

GOOD LUCK & BY ALL MEANS,, HAVE FUN..

------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-18-2005 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wasted most of the day working on it, but I had fun and the weather was awesome.

I understand the cost in custom paint jobs now. What a pain to get everything masked off. I can't believe I'm putting this much effort into a riding mower

Oh well, it has gotten me out in the garage working and the truck is next. Not body work, but work nonetheless.

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-18-2005 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yeah...pictures soon

This was actually a pretty fun project. I had my doubts that I could get a decent flame pattern going, but it turned out ok I think. I can't draw flames for the life of me, but the fine line tape seemed pretty easy to work with.

Didn't use a pattern and did it freehand so it's not symmetrical, but that's what I like about flames...don't gotta be perfect.

I don't think you have any worries about competition though Don. Mine won't be anywhere near as good as yours.

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1718
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 03-18-2005 01:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Big D, do you know of any good books or articles on how to get some good realistic looking flames? I beleive that's what i want to try to tackle on my torino hood when i get the rest of the glassing done, and havn't found much in the way of airbrushing decent realistic flames. I picked up the April Sport Truck mag as it has an article, but it's not very in depth, a whopping 8 pictures. I'm by far an expert with the airbrush, but i think it would be fun to tackle. Thanks

[This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 03-18-2005).]

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-18-2005 01:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Like this?


http://www.harikkeinter.net/HOTROD-FLAMES.jpg

Or this?

http://www.connerycustompaint.com/flames.html

Here you go:

http://www.pamelashanteau.com/Custom_Airbrushing_World.htm

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Dubz
Gearhead

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From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 03-18-2005 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i think i might not be able to handle it, as i really like that first one you linked, but i'm not too fond of the flames on that last site. Not something for a beginner most likely

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-18-2005 01:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wasn't too impressed with the flames on that last site either, but there are some books listed there to "teach" you how.

That first one is badass. It looks like the work of that guy who was on that episode of rides. Can't remember his name, but his work is amazing.

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 18703
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-18-2005 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like the flames that look more like classic flames.Like the black 5.0 in the second link. They are more free hand looking not perfect on both sides of the hood. Thats what Don's flames looked like. They were so cool or hot guess.
Dubz just start drawing them on paper. They try it on anything you have thats flat, like an old piece of metal.

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc.

My Pics

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1718
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 03-18-2005 02:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like those classic flames too, but not sure how they will look on such a big car when it's only on the hood. I'm just looking for something to give the car some pop, and think some realistic flames over flat black...ooooh it would be sweet.

I think it will just take TONS of practice, and maybe a how-to video or two

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Fastymz
Moderator

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From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
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posted 03-18-2005 02:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The best part about flat black s if it doesn't workout. Then you can just sand repaint some primer on the hood and go.
I've flames just on the hood I think it looks just fine.

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc.

My Pics

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1718
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 03-18-2005 02:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
to me it looks good on certain cars, like the flames that were/are on MM look great, but there is no black infront of the flame. I think on mine it would look as if i just painted the hood, not like i ment to.

[This message has been edited by Dubz (edited 03-18-2005).]

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
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posted 03-18-2005 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dubz..

Realistic Flames or Fire are much more detailed and complicated than taping of a design and painting it.. It takes layer after layer of colors combined with knowing exactly how to use specialty tool,, templates and color combinations..

Some of you may have see the documentary about the guy in Washington State that paints fire flames.. He's done bunches,, especially for a local pizza company,, painting their rigs,, boat and helicopter.. He does good work,, but he's been at it a long time..

Check out the link below for some how to info..

http://www.autobodydepot.net/scripts/depot.exe?pgm=lcgate.bbx&custnum=WEB-CUST++&password=&sesid=0308133729

A good way to practice making flames is to get a hood,, door,, fender,, and some 3M fine line Blue and tape away.. And if you don't like what you just created,, rip it off and do it again.. Buy some 1/4" & 1/8" and see what works best for you.. 1/8" is easier to make loops and turns,, but 1/4" makes smoother and more consistant lines..

It's FUN and like Joe says,, even if you can't draw well the tape naturally flows and makes it easier to create YOUR FLAMES.. Trust me,, there are no two flames that are the same.. Everyone has their own style.. That's what I love about designing flames,, "THERE ARE NO RULES"..

It's just like everything else.. The more you do it,, the easier it gets.. Bet you couln't ride a bicycle the first time you tried..

One final note.. When you're creating your design,, don't have someone looking over your shoulder.. If a friend wants to learn at the same time,, that's cool.. But,, having someone critic your flame as you creating and learning,, SUCKS,, especially when you haven't really tried taping before.. I've actually had to ask friends to LEAVE,, because critisism hinders creativity..

------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-18-2005 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DONE!

Well, almost. I still need to clearcoat it and maybe a little color sanding, but it's painted and unmasked.

Looks mean for a lawn tractor. The neighbors are gonna think I'm looney.

Pictures to come.

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-18-2005 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oops,

Hey Don, I used "high temp enamel with ceramic" Duplicolor paint. Don't say anything about acrylic on it. What should I use for clear(in a can)?

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-18-2005 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
See if they have Clear in that High Temp Paint.. If it's good and glossy,, you probably don't even need to put clear on it..

Just make sure you don't put Clear Lacquer on it.. They sometimes don't mix well..

It's neat when you pull the tape off,, isn't it.. Because untill you do,, it's hard to tell exactly what you have..

Sounds Like You Did A GOOD JOB..

and about the neighbors.. That's all part of the FUN with Flames..


------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-18-2005 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Dubz,,

You were asking about Realistic Flames.. Check out the Link Below and see what one of our new sponsors has to offer..

http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=11335&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=640&iSubCat=640&iProductID=11335

------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

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68F100
Gearhead

Posts: 2377
From: Fort Madison, Iowa USA - United We Stand
Registered: Oct 99

posted 03-19-2005 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68F100   Click Here to Email 68F100     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, they don't look as good as Don's, but here it is:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/iamthewreckingcrew/my_photos


Just click on the "Flames" album.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 43152
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 03-19-2005 09:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks great! You'll have the baddest grass barber on the block!

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 Open
'70 Mustang Convertible 250 I6/3 speed/2.79 Open
'72 Mustang Sprint Hardtop 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip

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Big D
Gearhead

Posts: 5133
From: WELLS, NEVADA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-19-2005 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big D   Click Here to Email Big D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Steve.. They look great.. You'll be SMILIN everytime someone says.. WOW,, Who did you have paint those FLAMES..

Good Job.. FLAMES ARE FUN..

------------------
Don
6T6 Fastback
331 STROKER, T-5

Royal Blue Metallic w/SoonToBeNewAndImprovedFlames
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/BigD.html
First Time out..
13.384 sec @ 103.388 mph

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